The original thiefs were my favorite games of all time even though I have never really completed any of them. I had the second for years, but wanted to play the first before seeing the entire storyline for the second so I quit at the final level. The first one was played during a time I felt more interested in replaying old missions instead of playing ahead (which I now refer to as a curse as it happened with many games for a few years). I have even enjoyed the 3rd game (but only played the demo) and the Dark Mod for Doom 3 (only did the original demos though as it was not complete when I left Doom 3). Eventually I plan on going back and finishing them.
As for your question, that is not easy to say before the game is actually released. We only have bits and pieces of pre-production, meaning our view might not be the final product. From what I have heard though, it angers me that they changed some of the core things. I would probably still play it just to see, but it doesn't look too promising.
Also, what is your opinion? Based on your question you sound like you know a thing or two about the game as well. That would be a first, most people don't even know Thief and will probably only remember the remake.
A major portion of Thief involved the supernatural and religious cults! All that remains would be regular guards, meaning a quite limited outlook on the city compared to the original. The level design of the originals was impressive because they went against reality and could create unique looking areas. Making it into a repetitive city atmosphere might not be very interesting.
Garrett is voiced by a new person. If they wanted to do something like the Dark Mod, change the name at least! Thief 2x used a different person. Yet Thief 4 changes the voice but keeps the character. I can't imagine a younger person having the vocals that the original had. Plus he did Benny (and other guards that sound like him) and Karras, two other awesome voices. If you notice my profile, it even has a quote from Benny.
Due to it being autumn, that means no swimming. Not a terrible hit like the first two, but it is one less feature that could mix up the pace.
I do like the Ironman mode, where if you die the game ends. Makes me wonder though, by default do you respawn when you die? That might just be too much.
Upgrades....I can imagine them being good as it might just be an extension of the shop. Improvements with time might actually represent his experience increasing as he goes. On the other hand, upgrade based games in this style also usually reduce the challenge. I wonder how it will mix with their challenging mode. The original expert was fun, hopefully this is as well.
I dislike focus and would disable it on first playing. Garrett may have a mechanical device he can throw around corners to see, but super-powered viewing that is enabled at all times sounds like immersiveness would be hindered.
The Unreal engine is a great engine to build it on. It always looks great and is a nice development package. I always prefered Thief's DromEd, but I don't think we are digging up old skeletons and so the best modern equivalent is good. Plus, a big flaw of the original was graphics.
I see what you're saying, with all of it! I originally played Thief 1 and 2, although, never got around playing the third game. I especially love stealth games which is why I enjoyed them. As much as the new one looks as an improvement and just a pure reboot of the series, I will still get around to playing it.
Though, I dislike a lot of things, and liked a lot of innovative features they implented. As long as they don't change too much from the original, I think it would be great. Also, as you said, I, too, would disable focus.
Just a lot to cover about the topic. I guess we would have to wait until the new one is released.
I wish to eventually sit down and play all three. I have planned it to be not long after I replay Quake and finally touch Quake 2. The last year or so has been a build up of plans that I wish to do. I especially want to redo Thief. The only other stealth game I have played is Deus Ex, which isn't true stealth and only has that as one of its choices. I loved the focus of Thief, stealth instead of blunt force. It required strategy. Also, it is the only game I know where speakers are a necessity.
I heard they are trying to be pure to Thief, being big fans of the original. Hopefully they know the amount of detail they must put in to make it work. I think a big part of Thief was in the detailed story and dialogue, both of which were optional but added to the immersiveness if you wanted it to.
I am about to blab more about Thief and how important it is to my life. Feel free to skip, this might get very long. As said by one of the guards outside of Bafford Manor - "When I was a kid"...
When I originally played Thief 2 I never had functional cutscenes and so I missed out on the story. Yet I always found myself drawn to that game, reinstalling it maybe a week after uninstalling it. There was no game that captivated me like it. It was my first FPS without me even knowing game genres.
If you remember Thief 2, you might remember how mission 1 required you not to kill anyone. Later levels would only keep that requirement on expert. My parents played the first level and saw the no kill objective, so thought it was a decent game for me to play. I was quick to beat the level and started killing people in level 2. By the time my parents found out, they decided it couldn't be reversed and that I was unaffected by the violence. So I got to keep playing. Thief is the game that allowed me to play violent video games much earlier than other children. I think it might have been the first game I played outside of educational gaming too.
Other childhood memories include having a journal at school, where you write what is on your mind. I ended up writing walkthroughs for Thief 2.
Years went by and I eventually ended up getting Thief Gold (not pure Thief 1, but I wanted the extra missions). Due to the curse I never completed it either, but I still can hear the bear conversation outside of Bafford's manor. "No paw hooks? What they do? Just bump into each other?"
I especially enjoyed city maps, where you could just run around in circles and eventually lose the guards. Then you turn around, let them search for you, and then pop out and resume the chase in the opposite direction.
I also played a ton of fan missions. I remember there being a Saw-like adventure with cages of Hammer Haunts. I remember Elizabeth Bathory and being chased by a wearwolf. I remember crates flying at you and doors opening on their own. Even jumping out a door and dying. I never saw a bad fan mission for Thief.
DromEd added to the fun. I loved that editor, especially replacing the servant in Bafford's Manor with 100 or so zombies. Having a zombie invasion marching into Bafford's manor just added to the fun that could be had.
I remember back when I played I only used DarkLoader to load fan missions and had to reset the video manually by hand. Near the very end I discovered GarretLoader, which did it automatically. When I return I hope to finally play with GarretlLoader a bit more.
Thief III seemed different than the first 2. It reminded me of the Dark Mod, which I was playing around the same time and therefore have difficulty telling the difference between the two. Mostly the former is forgotten, I just know that I did play it.
I know the first demo for the Dark Mod had some guard humming and I have had that stuck in my head almost every time I walk somewhere. Hopefully some taffer doesn't blackjack my head! The second mod was "Tears of St. Luicia" or something, involving a statue that cried blood. I never did make it far on that map, it lagged too much on my extremely old computer. So most of my memories was with that first little map, which I remember rather well (besides the name).
Man, a lot of nostalgia is coming to me as well. I remember on the first level of Thief 1, finding my first secret. After weapon training, you take the key off the table and lead myself to a room where you could play basketball. Talking all about this just makes me want to play it. I loved the skill it took to play it, as you said. Having to hide in shadows, walking on different surfaces make different noises, causing a level of alarm. Just so much to discuss.
I still have all the Thiefs -- never got around to playing Thief III. I played a bit, and just never played it again, even after all these years. Though, T1 and 2 were just amazing, and possibly one of my first FPS. I remember Quake II and Doom being my first FPS', but Thief soon followed after that.
I might just have to pull out Thief III to actually try it and play through it...
What a horribly disturbing coincidence. After replaying Dishonoured for the second time a month ago I found myself wanting another real good fun stealth game. Only tonight did I think about Thief and how you always spoke about how good it was. So I have bought the Thief Complete Collection and that also made me think 'I've not been here for a while'. So I decided to pop in and what do I see, you guys are talking about Thief!
I'm doing great as well. Glad I have got Thief into your head.
I try to play most of my games but sometimes I get so addicted to something else that it gets hard. Most of the games I never touched though are more recent titles in an attempt to see if any were as good as the old school. Yet I just find myself procrastinating and focusing on old school. They are not on my list for a bit either.
Anyway, anybody else seeing a new format of the wikia or is it just me? It suddenly is stretched out. Maybe it is due to what I am used to, but the new format seems to require a lot more scrolling due to less words being on the screen at once. Zooming out seems to fix that, but still something seems changed.
I guess it's a little different. Like you say scrolling out seems to make it better.
From what I've seen of Thief it looks like the off spring if Quake and Dishonoured had sex. I was thinking of getting MSG1 but this looks a million times better. Better still there's a new thief coming out next year. I really know how to time things correctly.
Does the stealth aspect really work? There are some games (albeit not ones that centre on strealth) where the stealth is broken, boring and a down-right waste of space. I have to wait till Satuarday to start playing it. Please feel free to wet my appetite. Come Monday I will have played enough that we can have more than a 1-sided convocation about your favourite game :D
This'll be the second game I found from you guys after Her/Hex.
Anyway, anybody else seeing a new format of the wikia or is it just me? It suddenly is stretched out. Maybe it is due to what I am used to, but the new format seems to require a lot more scrolling due to less words being on the screen at once. Zooming out seems to fix that, but still something seems changed.
Wikia is having all wikis use their new fluid layout, as a part of their "Project Darwin." I personally dislike how the format is a ll stretched out, and ruined many wikis that had a background from CSS (which they also updated). You can learn more about it here.
And yes, Raadec, the stealth aspect really works. It's great, actually compared to some games today. Especially for it being outdated with everything. I personally love stealth games, and Dishonored was great, but you should love Thief if you're into stealth. I know that they're changing a lot to the new Thief game, but I still think it looks interesting, and I will definately get it. As long as they don't change the basic concept, I'm good.
Not long ago I hated stealth games. I couldn't stand the slow, trial by error, wimpy bull shit. My first stealth game was Manhunt and I only wanted it that because it was a Rockstar game. Interestingly enough a review I read said:
"Ultimately, Manhunt won't change most people's minds about whether they like stealth games or not."
However over the years following Manhunt I have slowly got into stealth, trying (without success) to get into the MGS series. Dishonoured is what did it for me though. I played it first time guns blazing and slitting every throat I could get my blade on. Second time though (this fall) I decided to go with the stealthy kill-no-one (almost) route and despite expecting it feel like a chore I quickly found myself enjoying more ten-fold. So now I’ve been looking for a really good stealth game and what appears to be a stealthy Quake might just be what I need. MGS feels like a big leap because the games are so big and I feel I’d need to play all four games to get the most out of it.
How did you guys get into stealth? I know Death at least has played Thief since 1742 but did you ever find it wimpy bull shit compared to games where you go into a room full of enemies and kill them all no hassle?
One thing I am thinking about going to a Quake like game is that in most stealth games the enemies are mostly identical apart from skin changes (and in Manhunt’s case) and what words they use to insult you. Is Thief like this or does it feel like you have to use different tactics for different enemies like going from a Death Knight to an Ogre?
Also on a Wiki topic, how has things been here lately? I was going to ask if you're back doing Admin duties Ninja but you appear to have removed your title. Any particular reason? I know, I am very observant. You only did it 6 months ago :D
Well, just like Death, I'm more into old school games rather than the newer ones, but I love all games. Though, I appreciate the older school ones more, I'm not exaclty sure why, but I just do. I love Quake, Doom, Unreal, Half-Life, Thief, Wolfenstein, and much more. Though, I'll play any game.
I would have to say that I got into stealth games just because I love the sort of style. I also like sniper- and bow-play, not sure why, but I suppose that it can play a part in stealth. Stealth is also strategic. It adds more play to the game, and requires more effort. Games like Thief actually depend on the type of surface you're on, and how much you stick to shadows (not the scripted shit where you would be told to hide in the shadows for once, and any time, you would get caught).
On the wiki topic, I just thought I become inactive in the entire Wikia community. I didn't feel the need to have my admin rights since I became inactive shortly after that. I guess I just got around to removing my rights because I didn't want to hold the rights if I wasn't going to use them. Though, I am now able to get on everyday, and now I'm more active. Not on the editing side, but just getting on I suppose.
Earlier the wikia was updating, couldn't reply. Let's see what has happened. I can't seem to write small posts...
I actually dislike the new formatting like Ninja. It bugs me. Look at the main page (EDIT:I enlarged the boxes to eliminate the white space.). We have a giant gap! Who knows what other pages have such problems and what did we gain by the upgrade? A wider formatting so less text exists at once? The older format was more like other websites and had a good user friendliness. If we could switch back I would, but the problem is that we have to get used to it anyway. I wish this change was optional and would never be forced, not expected to be the norm in time.
Thief is an interesting game when it comes to the stealth aspect. It will be a big part of the game at times, especially in Thief II. The first one focuses more on the supernatural at certain portions, meaning there is a difference between enemies.
Humans are not to be killed on the highest difficulties. Supernatural beings can be killed though. Some people run away to get help, whilst others charge at you (or shoot you with arrows). The superatural is like fighting enemies in Quake or another FPS, except it is more melee/arrow based. There are like eight factions in the original Thief that all work in different ways. I wouldn't say it is a reskin at all, but the classes themselves do reskin (male/female servants and such).
We change strategies in Quake? I just thought it was don't shoot a shambler with explosives or a spawn up close, everything else is fair game. I feel the strategy was to nailgun both a Ogre and a Death Knight. Maybe I just never noticed I change my strategy...
The good thing about Thief is that it is first person, meaning it is more like Quake and those games. Just don't expect to shoot anything with a gun. Expect instead a massive armament of arrows (such as fire and water that affect the elements differently).
BTW Raadec, which Thief 1 did you get? Thief: The Dark Project, or Thief Gold? The latter fixes some bugs and adds 3 levels (I loved the first added mission even if it was confusing to navigate).
The wikia has been good. Mostly quiet until I started talking to Ninja, you and Vork have been mostly absent. Enemies have improved galleries now. KindMelon added a level chart after finding some mistakes in the walkthroughs, the template was based off of Thief Wikia (obviously my suggestion would involve Thief). A few people have been editing every day, adding fixes to the text.
I love them all as well. I can pick up a more recent title and play it. I have socialized with people on some of the more recent Call of Duties. Only thing is that I end up comparing EVERYTHING to old school and not in a positive light. I feel it took more skill back then, I feel the games had more details, ect. Thief is a major part of it, being the game that I say we should learn from. It was made by a revolutionary company, Looking Glass Studios, that made Ultima Underworld (the game Carmack based his engine on in order to be more fast paced, so they inspired ID's Wolfenstein engine which eventually led to Doom and Quake) and System Shock (Remember the audio logs in Doom 3? This is the game that started that). Thief was their last title and perhaps their greatest. The engine is a lot like Unreal's, yet I feel it is managed better. Alas, it was only used in-house and ended with their company's collapse. I don't remember Unreal being one double click away from changing all the properties of a projectile from a broadhead to a fire arrow. Alas, I wasn't very serious when I played with it but from what I remember it was a good engine.
Thief is extremely strategic in comparison to a normal FPS. Raadec, when you play the game, make sure you have good working audio. You will need to hear every sound, to know where the guards are and what surface you are walking on. Jumping on metal is a good way of getting every guard in a certain radius on alert. Remember though, sometimes you can use noises to your advantage. Shooting a broadhead can cause noises that distract the enemy. Banging on doors is another fun tool, as sometimes the guards might even be nice and unlock it (though the difficult part is keeping it unlocked).
You said Thief was like Dishonored, I have heard that time and time again. The theme may be the same, but I feel there is a big difference between a superpowered human and a thief. Didn't Dishonored give you supernatual abilities? The only game that might do that to you might be the remake (supernatural exist, but you don't have powers). There is one item in Thief II that might be considered such a power, yet I won't mention it here as it involves the plot of Thief 1. Ninja can probably see what I am getting at, if you still don't know by T2 though I will talk more about it.
In Thief, there are multiple ways to reach the same place. I think there is at least 5 ways to reach the main objective in the first level of Thief 1. It is all prerendered, so guards are always patrolling and the world feels very complete. They basically give you the tools and allow you to do the mission in the way you see fit. If you like non-linear gameplay, Thief might be one of the closest while still having objectives.
Ugh, all this talk of Thief is getting to me though. I almost want to skip Quake and just play a ton of Thief. But I owe it to the wikia to come back before succumbing to my addiction (I haven't played it in eight years or so, talk about a long rehab).
Hey, we all are probably not the most active editors right now. Mostly it has been minor edits for the last few weeks, but otherwise I don't do much right now. I have Quake on my computer but wish to finish the H.P. Lovecraft material before starting (and maybe some Commander Keen, I never did give that a good try). My activity might finally start returning in early 2014 based on my rate of progress. As always I say don't hold open a door for me, but I do have it in my mind to come back soon and have already started planning the order of the walkthroughs (which are still yet to be completed, still someone else might come along and do it perfectly in my absence and in which case I will simply start working on the top unfinished plan in my list).
Speaking of Lovecraft, I have some speculations that you guys may or may not care about. I have found sources stating that originally Quake was to be Aztec. Perhaps the reason why that theme still exists in some levels (The Terracotta theme and E1M8 specifically) is due to Lovecraft also connecting his mythos to the Aztecs around 1931 with The Electric Executioner (The Curse of Yig also is another Cthulhu story involving a deity linked to Quetzalcoatl). It is a stretch of something that probably isn't connected, but it is an interesting coincidence that it seems to be the only time Lovecraft altered the names of his gods in order to have Aztecian names. Apparently Shub-Niggurath became a mixture between her and Yig, Niguratl-Yig. Also, Shub-Niggurath seems to be the only deity mentioned by Lovecraft that does not have a story devoted to her (in fact, there is very little more than her name and the mention of her being worshiped in underground shrines.. like in E4M3 perhaps?). Following Lovecraft's teachings, the Elder Gods was more of a name passed around to any of the deities rather than a benevolent entity like in Dereleth's and later. As I think Quake is based off the teachings of Lovecraft more than Dereleth (this isn't a biblical battle between good and evil gods, but between man and gods that try to kill him such as Chthon and Shub-Niggurath) it is probably more likely that E4M3 is a shrine to evil forces and not good.
Half-Life is good Ninja? I have heard a lot of good reception, though was worried it was the start of modern gaming. Didn't it have a lot of QTEs and Cutscenes? It is one of the biggest games I have neglected to play yet always plan on eventually getting to due to it being an old school game.
Indeed. Thief is very strategic and stealthy, which is basically the message of this thread. A great game and one of the must-plays of the old school games, whether you like them or not.
And, on the topic of Thief being compared to Dishonored, they both are good stealth games. Though, Dishonored as more features, including supernatural powers, as Thief mainly focuses on just stealth and the strategic ways to reach your goal. Thief is truly the better stealth game.
And yes, Death, Half-Life is good. I would say that it did sort of start modern gaming, and not exactly like Quake, Thief, Wolfenstein, Unreal, etc. Though, it is a great game and probably one of my favorites of all-time. I enjoyed Half-Life 2, but it seems that they changed too much from HL1, so Half-Life (+ expansions) is what I like. If you like Quake, and maybe Thief, you could be interested into Half-Life. Not exaclty the same concept, I suppose, but, it is old school, and is great.
When I think of bad stealth there is a level early on Black Ops 2 (my mate has it and I was curious) where you follow an ally through tall grass in an enemy base. All you do is hold crouch and follow this NPC when he tells you. Finally you get to the end of this 'scripted shit' as Ninja put it and I can't tell you what happened next because that's when I got bored to death. Real stealth though I agree really makes you think hard about your strategy.
I have been inactive a long time and I agree there's no need to be an admin when you're not active. However the one time I decided enough was enough some kid called Vork arrived and his sudden burst of effort got me active again. I haven't thought about it again though. If you ever feel like you want to be an admin again then just say and so it will be.
I bought Thief: Collections which includes Thief Gold, Thief 2 and Thief 3.
My speakers have 360 sound whatever that means. I guess it is just as good as surround sound without having sound surround. However I will want to try it this weekend at my first house where I won't have speakers apart from the inbuilt mice balls on my laptop. Should I not bother until I get home on Sunday with my proper speakers?
Dishonoured's powers feel very balanced and they are split into two groups, 'Killing' and 'Stealth'. So you can tailor which powers you unlock to match the way you want to play the game. I don't think the powers make it too easy but more fun. I think for the first few levels I will miss not being able to teleport down the corridor or around a corner to avoid a guard. Looking at Thief 4, I and others have compared to it Dishonoured which is fitting as Dishonoured is comparable to Thief. I am looking forward however to not being a super being and using nothing but a sword, bow and my ability to pass by guards as if I weren't even there.
I will have to try Half Life eventually in that case.
The entire level of Thief just throws you in there, not much scripted besides dialogue which is entirely skippable. It is as fluid as Quake in that regard.
Good job on getting Thief Gold. Enjoy the extra missions!
I used to play Thief with junky speakers and it can work. However, I would recommend the best sound you have. The game utilizes it heavily and you will be thankful for the more powerful sounds.
360 speakers look pretty good. Don't know how they compare to surround sound or if they have a subwoofer, but it could have saved me the trouble of putting up speakers in the corners of my room to get the same effect.
You will be using more of your innate abilities, such as leaning around a corner to see if a guard is coming.
In wikia news, heads up. It seems that an editor is in the beta stage. It seems to be an improvement on the visual editor, but it seems to make the source editor less involved. You no longer get a full screen view of the source editor (Which I know Raadec uses as well). As it is the beta (galleries don't work yet) the feature does not have to be implemented and it is deactivated right now, but I am warning that the future seems to come with even more changes.
Also, Raadec, I mentioned it on the other forum which is pretty much dead now that Vork has become inactive. But do you support or disagree with badges? I have saw one of the active users (I think Stoudemire) talking about how they cause problems. Lately a few users seem to edit every day or in certain areas such as 50 weapon fixes at once. I wouldn't think anything of it if it wasn't focusing on strategy though and was basically adding words that said the same thing. It could be legitimate, but it could also be people competing and therefore posting unecessary edits. In the past I remember that I disagreed, but I forget what your stance was and therefore did not want to do anything without consulting you (and hopefully Vork if he is still around).
Also, I am upset to say there seems to be no way back to the old theme even if everyone agreed. Why couldn't it be an optional button in the labs!
The box says that 360 sound means you can hear the sound perfectly no matter where you are in the room. I think I might have bought speakers fitting for a TV set up in a lounge but I just use them on my PC. It does have a sub so I think I'm ready. I guess I'll play the first two levels without them.
I actually hate all reward schemes be it Badges, Trophies or Achievements. When they appeared 18 somewhat months ago I felt the overall opinion was that they were good so I didn't say anything. However if you are saying otherwise then I say go ahead and scrap them.
QuakeWiki is apart of the Wikia community and unfortunately we have no say on the theme. I'm guessing some people in Wikia get paid to do their job and they have to justify it somehow by changing something every few months. I'm think we've talked about going down the same route as GrandTheftWiki or Bulbapedia where they are their own site and not apart of Wikia (I think) but that would probably involve funding from us if that is what we want to do. Which I don't I'm afraid. So I think we'll just have to suck it up.
I can't count the amount of times I've said "I'm playing Quake so I'll probably be more active" but then never been active. All I can say (for what it's worth) is that I still have DoE to play following on from my last play of SoA a few months ago. Maybe I'll be active when I get into that :\
My opinion on achievements is that they are just a recipe for disaster. When a user wants to be recognized, he'll vandalize and make useless edits to earn achievements. Which is just their way of saying "I contributed the most to the wiki, I should be appreciated." It also makes the wiki look bad, with other people reverting bad edits to do so.
On the new fluid layout, I mainly just see poor critcizm. I hope that wiki will change their minds and at least just make it an option to choose or not to choose the layout.
Hope you enjoy Thief, Raadec; I know you will. Talking all about this just wants to make me buy the Thief collection on Steam, and replay them all.
The first level will be a tutorial mission just so you know. Note that even though it teaches you a lot, there are many functions they won't tell you about that can be found in the options menu. I think I went crazy trying to figure out how to drop an object when I just had to look in the config settings. Leaning is also not mentioned if I remember correctly. The second function is useful at times, but I found myself not using it very often. The drop feature similarily is only useful for doing things the Lytha way.
The Lytha way is something to consider after beating the game, if you want more of a challenge. It basically requires you to be an expert thief, closing/locking all doors, placing items where they were found (besides treasure) and not knocking out guards. The first mission is quite a challenge under those circumstances!
As it is unanimous I will finally remove them. I just have seen them as a game on the wikia. Editors will edit regardless, only people playing a game and not performing useful edits would resort to badges. This is supposed to be a collaborative effort, not a competitive area.
It stinks, but we are stuck with the wikia I believe. I have heard of other wikias branching off, but the funding is the difficult part. First, who wants to finance such a project? Even though I enjoy this game, I wouldn't want to finance a community site. Donations wouldn't be very helpful as we get such a small community. Besides 2 or 3 active users and the occassional spammer we don't see much in terms of activity. Even the admins find themselves lapsing into inactivity due to such stagnation but come back in an attempt to endeavor to boost the wikia forward. We are at the wikia's mercy. I hope you are right Ninja.
Talking about Thief to me is like talking about cigarettes to a person who just quit smoking. I think Thief too much and it comes up almost in every game topic.
I understand what you mean Raadec. I know how many times I have said I am going to play Quake and become active. I just seem to end up doing something else. At this time I am reading "The Whisperer in Darkness" and am going at a rather slow pace. As I have yet to even hit the novels I know it will be a while before I finish. When it is time though, I will be ready. Quake is completely set up on this computer and my test video seems to work (nobody really responded on it though as that is when everyone disappeared).
Vork never said he was going. He just disappeared for the time being.
EDIT: I also got a message from a wikia staff member about deactivating the new editor after testing it. I passed on the flaws, including some mentions about the fluid layout, in the hope to further the improvement. I mainly use source editor so hopefully someone more acquainted with the visual editor could further test it if they wish. For the visual side it seems like an improvement, it just needs to be completed and not depricating source editor by making it into a minimalized editor. Editing the walkthrough pages is easier when you can see a larger amount of source, which helps when you quickly need to switch between bold and normal whilst writing.
DOUBLEEDIT: It sounds like they have listened to my suggestion for the editor in regards to the size of the source editor and currently are also working on galleries, no response on the wikia theme. Hopefully this ends up better than the fluid layout.
Badges have been deactivated based on a unanimous vote among active users (Stoudemire having said his opinion before and the rest being captured here).
Democracy at work. Now let's vote on something that includes QuakeWiki being the most visited Wikia ever.
It's good that Wikia are listening. Are you waiting for whatever outcome comes from this before doing anything about the main page?
I have completed the first mission of Thief (not counting the tutorial) and despite a few glitches I have found it a great pleasure. It really is a combonation of Quake and Dishonoured and it's as good as I thought.
The glitches are 1) The game apparently does not like multiple cores and as my PC is quadcore I have to tell the PC to use only 1 core when running the game. Secondly there seems to be 1 room in level 2 (level 1 being tutorial) with a lot paintings that causes the game to totally crash. Is this something you're aware of?
But yes, all in all I am very pleased with the prospect of playing Thief. It really is a gem. I can't believe you haven't played it for 8 years. That's like me not playing Dark Forces 2 or Quake 2 for 8 years!!!
Ninja, bare in mind the glitches I mentioned. I don't know if it is local to the Collection version of the games or not.
What is still wrong with the main page? I streched out the template boxes to sizes that would eliminate the white space. What is wrong with it that is fixable (and not part of the new wikia format)?
Glad you like Thief so far. I can't answer for 1 as I probably only had a single core when I last played it. This might be interesting as I am now using a dual core.
I think I know the room with a lot of paintings. It never caused my computer to crash though. Course, it could be compatibility problems that didn't exist back then. Sorry I am not a great help, but as you said it has been 8 years.
I miss Thief but it is almost necessary that I focus on other things and broaden my horizons. If I played Thief I would have trouble giving it up like I would for any other game. Therefore it is rather hard to go back to it. The only reason I stopped before was because my old computer getting a virus (it wasn't really mine, I was sharing one with my parents at the time). Nobody knew who it was that was using it when the virus popped up, so we ended up with me going to a laptop and my parents restoring their computer and making it the way they wanted (I wanted to tinker yet couldn't on a system that would affect other people anyway).
It was difficult at the time to install Thief so I wasn't quick to reinstall it. I remember having to run it manually from the console, killing and restarting processes at certain points, and having to run certain executables to refresh the videos before I could even play the game. I couldn't even play the Training mission without it crashing at the time and had to do numerous things that I have since forgotten. That was another reason I had Thief kept on that computer, it was difficult to reinstall. It probably is nothing now that I am a bit more experienced and have my own desktop computer (especially since the final step could be fixed with GarretLoader), but at the time my knowledge was quite limited and doing such a process was not ideal.
Nowadays that isn't the reason I don't return. I eventually plan on doing it. I just want to have Quakewiki on its feet and have played a lot more games, as I am not sure I will be leaving Thief anytime soon.
Hm, strange Raadec, I know the room, but my computer never crashed. And by computer, I mean my computer from almost a decade ago. I'll eventually buy the collection, and since my computer is 100 times better than my old one, I hope there is no problem. As Death said, it may be compatibility problems.
Who knows, it might even be your OS. Windows 8 might have changed some things in terms of compatibility.
If you have any old installation cds of Windows 98, you might want to try making a VM image. Set it up to use only one processor if that still causes problems, that way it doesn't affect your main computer. Course, if you are like most people, you probably only have preinstalled windows and thus don't have a cd.
Did you switch your compatibility mode to windows 98? Being an old school gamer I would assume you would know, but then again maybe it just has never been required with other games. I think I recall doing that to fix some crashes.
The recent activity box is very narrow and the news box is very wide, over lapping the redundant poll box. It is weird if you have fixed this but I can still see it. Is the main page ok for you guys?
I seem to be having more problems that I have not had time to look at it until later today. It was a half lie when I said I completed the sceptre level. I had reached the end of the level but because I ran past loads of guards at the main entrance like an ape I reloaded the game to try and find a more stealthy approach to exit the mansion. However I ran out of time and that is when I found the gallery room glitch and posted my last message before going out. But when I came back to finish the level (going with the ape approach due to the gallery glitch) the game now crashes every time I click continue. This is despite getting to level 3 yesterday before I had to go out (and before reloading to attempt a stealthy exit to level 2).
I have decided to play Thief on my desktop instead of my laptop as I had originally planned. So I am running Windows 7 (desktop) instead of Windows 8 (laptop).
I will try setting the compatibility mode later today. That seems to work for many old games although this collection was released later 00’s and so is said to run on XP and Vista. I wouldn’t think setting it to 98 would be much help but I will give it a try. Perhaps there is an XP compatibility mode, that idea seems funny now that XP is an old OS just like 95 and 98 :D
I am playing on Hard because it has the same mechanics as Goldeneye 64 where by the harder difficulties have more objectives so you end up playing only half the level with easier difficulties. I figured I’d start with Hard for my first time before going to Expert next. The idea of finding the sceptre in level 2 but then not having to escape makes Normal difficulty very childish and removes a lot of the mission, and fun.
What OS do you run Ninja? It'd be interesting if it is Windows 7 or 8. If you do buy it I should have found out the fixes by then. Hopefully.
Looks okay on my end. I posted a screenshot on my end. Maybe it has something to do with resolution differences? How do we get to a median level...
Hopefully you have better luck on your desktop.
I think I normally was always on Expert. For some reason I had more trouble navigating the first game than the second, it seemed like many objectives on the highest difficulty were out of the way (and as I refused to use a walkthrough, I eventually got semi-stuck while also not putting much effort into looking as I wanted to replay level 2 as you so called it).
I am also interested in the Windows 7 side, being the only OS I wish to use (after trying and disliking Ubuntu, never try a cheap knockoff when you are used to the high quality product).
I doubt resolution has anything to do with it. But then I can't think why apart from one thing. When I changed the background to what it is now it took a week for it to actually change on my pc. However on another pc it had already changed. For whatever reason I can only assume the changes made take different amounts of time to finalize on different systems (browsers? os?) but I can't be sure.
The only problem with my theory is that the background is much different to edits to the main page. Changing the width of boxes is no different to adding a line of text to any other page.
On Thief I am reading forums where people have managed to play the game without fail once but subsequent times see the game freezing and crashing. This is not the first game I've played where I've had to work around glitches regardless of whether it is because of my OS, graphics card, cpu and so on... The forums were less than useless but thankfully I believe I have found away to work around the problems with Thief.
For both your benefits for the time when you play Thief again, I will list what problems I have faced. It is rather funny that although you guys are Thief Veterans, I am more of a pro than you when it comes to playing Thief on modern OS. Using the least meaning on the word pro :(
Bear in mind that I am playing it on Windows 7.
Glitch 1- Game crashing to desktop (the only time this has happened is when I entered the room with loads of painting)
Glitch 2- Pressing continue on the mission complete screen to start the new mission resulting in game crashing to desktop.
Solution- It appears both glitches 1 and 2 are due to a corrupted save file. Both glitches took place on one save file (my latest one), however when I loaded a different save file none of these glitches happened. It is my way of working that I create many save files as I go along in the event I save during a wrong moment, save after I have stuffed myself or in this case, a save file is corrupted. All I can say is to make backups every few minutes. That way no matter when you reach a glitch, you can go back to a save a mere few minutes before meaning you won’t loose much progress.
Glitch 3- The game freezing or not even loading. Thankfully the forums were helpful on this and I have mentioned the solution of this before.
Solution- Thief does not like multiple cores and as I have said my PC has quadcore. To get around this follow these basic instructions.
1) Open the Thief.exe and go no further than the main menu.
2) Press Alt-Tab or Windows to get to the desktop.
3) Open the task manager and go to the processed tab.
4) Find Thief.exe in the list and right click.
5) Click on ‘set affinity’ and deselect all but 1 core.
6) Close task manager and click the Thief tab to return to the game.
I realise that neither of you sound like you will be playing Thief anytime soon but this thread can be our glitch guide. I adore this game just as much as Dark Forces and Quake. I will not let some stupid fucking technical issues stop me from playing. I will now be able to play the prison level, wish me luck.
Following on from my guide to getting around glitches, feel free to add your own guides to sort out problems you may have experienced in the past.
Windows 7 is superb. So is Windows 8. Hear me out if you have bad views for W8 based on what you’ve heard.
Windows 8 is getting bad press because it is more Tablet-Focused. However Windows 8 does have a traditional desktop mode that works and feels like Windows 7. There is software called Start8 that gives you a proper Start button with Windows 7 style Start menu (W7 trumps even XP in this and many other areas). So now my laptop works and feels just like Windows 7 but with the added speed that comes with Windows 8.
The only 2 things Windows 7 has above 8 is a lower price and gaming. 8 will be more expensive so it depends if that is important to you. When I say gaming the only game I’ve had trouble with is the Dark Forces expansion pack Mystery of the Sith. I have tried very old few games on 8 and most of them work. Needless to say modern games work fine. I have not tried Quake but Jedi Knight works. As time goes on I will try loading more games (mostly old) and I will keep note which games work and which don’t. However I don’t think it will be a big issue. I may load Quake just to find out if it does work.
I use OS Windows 7, Raadec. Also, I appear to have the same problem as you. I'm using Google Chrome with my zoom on 100%, so it's normal.
Anyways, I played my Thief on Hard, and didn't really seem too difficult. I never experienced anything like those glitches or crashes (possibly on my old computer, but I wouldn't be able to remember). But now that I use Windows 7, any old school game that I play on Steam are perfectly fine. I don't believe that I've ever experienced a crash of my game/Steam, unless if my whole computer crashed, which happens on occasion either way.
I've never used Windows 8 so far, and only stuck to using Windows 7. I've heard that Windows 8 has more problems than Windows 7 for desktop, because, as you said, it's more tablet-focused. Though, if I get a new computer, I will probably have Windows 8 and use it for myself.
Like I said, I'm looking to buying the Thief Collection on Steam, which I believe is only about $15. I'll be playing the game on Steam, so how exactly are you playing it?
Yeah probably, since the compatibility issues. If you have Steam, you can publish Thief into your Library. Though, I had issues with Unreal (resolution problems and couldn't interact) when I did that, but I think that's just that game. My Aliens vs. Predator 2 worked great that way. If you have Steam, click on "+ Add a Game..." in the bottom left corner of your Library, and then "Add a Non-Steam Game..." and find the Thief file and whatnot.
Might try that if anything else causes problems, apart from those sodding zombies. I have steam from buying Half-Life 2 and Skyrim but I like to avoid using it if I can. That along with EA's Origin are the devil's work.
I always wondered what Quake's zombies would be life if you couldn't blow them up. Now I know...
I dislike any software that is required to play games. To be honest Steam is actually ok compared to Origin. But never-the-less it feels like a middleman that publishers use to enforce their copyright. I can't blame them as technology grows so does the opportunity for people to steal software. But still it feels like a blow to the balls (EA Origin especially) to lawful people who purchase games. One of my latest games is Crysis 3 published by EA. This is how I came about Origin. It was such a ball ache getting the game (and Origins) going that I join the many in hating EA. I always thought the hate against EA was 'blue ball butt hurt fan boyism' but now I know.
Why is my view the only one fully working? I am using Maxthon with my zoom on 100% as you can see in the corner. I also agree with Raadec's theroy, it is not a matter of time as it is a simple edit. I have tried fixing up the sizes, setting it to pixels instead of arbitrary sizes that might contribute to such problems. The right column cannot be adjusted much due to the ad at the top not changing. I have set the page to look like it did before, but with pixel measurements. Did it do anything?
I save a bunch too, but because I have a tendency to accidentially overwrite. Glad to hear you fixed the problems! Also glad to hear you enjoy it that much! I told you it was a good game :).
I dislike Windows 8 mostly due to having less control over my system. Isn't it true you can no longer press f8 to go to safe mode? Still, I eventually plan on trying it just like I did with Ubuntu. I can simply get a cd and create a VM like I did for Windows 98. Just laziness and hapiness with windows 7 keeps me from doing it. Still, the faster startup could be interesting.
I also never have touched Steam and have only seen it. I want a physical copy rather than a digital, otherwise I might lose it on a hard-drive corruption.
I remember the old computer that would play Thief could not even play Aliens vs Predator. That is how weak my graphics were back then.
Oh, btw Raadec. There are ways to blow up Zombies. I won't give too much information, but just remember your folklore. The Quake solution could also work if you had some explosives on hand, but part of the problem is that this is the age before grenade launchers and rocket launchers...
Well, Steam is just a distribution of games, mainly. It's not much more than something like a console, but it is. I mean, you buy and play games, and they also save to a cloud. I'm not exactly catching what you mean, Raadec. I love Steam. It's better than consoles, and any game distributor. I guess I'm not exactly catching your drift. I've had Steam for years, and had no problem. Especially with games. And Death, what do you mean that you want a "physical copy"? Of Steam?
I mean a physical copy of the games. I originally thought Steam would just give you the game on your hard drive to prevent illegal distribution. I am surprised they would keep a cloud service so if your hardware goes under you still have the games.
Say the cloud fails, are you unable to play the games?
What if they move to a better platform than Steam? Like an old MMO, will you no longer be able to access the titles you once owned?
Maybe the cloud is only for downloading the games and is useful as a backup. Still, I don't like the risk of perhaps losing them in the future. It is the reason I disagree with premium downloadable content or other products on the consoles.
I like how it manages your game library. Still, that is little use to use a program. I often like to go to the program folder as I often customize files.
Well, the cloud just saves all of your files to the Steam Cloud. If you get a new computer, or you use someone else's computer, all your saves that was saved on the cloud will be there. You would just have to re-install the games onto that computer. And you don't have to go onto Steam to start your games. You can open them from the program folder. Though, it just uses Steam to open the game. If the cloud fails, you can still play the game; it's just for other computers or if your game needs to be re-installed. You can disable the cloud if you don't want that though. Everything on Steam is guaranteed, as being a member on their for years. It's nothing much more than Xbox Live, or PlayStation Network, but just for PC.
Which leaves only the distrust of losing my installed games in the future if I do not have it on my hard drive when they decide to end their service. It is not too serious of a complaint right now, but I often install and uninstall games to save hard drive space. It is why I don't like downloading from either of the services you mentioned. It is good for instant convenience, but it is still you renting the game. You get to keep it installed, but upon uninstallation you might lose them permanently if they suddenly decide to end their service.
I know, Steam isn't probably going away any time soon. I just distrust the services and would prefer a real copy. Still, it is interesting to know a bit more about the service and at least some of my fears are abated due to it being in a cloud only as a backup and not a requirement. I just would never want it to be the way I personally purchase games and I hope we don't start going towards the medium of no cds.
Even if Steam does end, the files of the games still go to your folders and programs, where you can open them from their. I don't believe that Steam is entirely required to start games from program folders. If they do end, they will probably make the files independent and will shut down Steam Cloud syncing. Though, Steam will probably never shut down, so with the Steam Cloud, all game saves are still there even if the game is uninstalled.
But the installation files, you don't get those and therefore cannot install it on another computer after Steam's end... You pretty much have to keep the games on your hard drive in that case or risk losing them forever.
I didn't mean for it to turn into a massive Steam argument, sorry.
I have found out how to blow up Zombies. Very satisfying after I spent the entirety of the Prison level with 1 health after getting beat up by one of the immortal skeletors (not realising how to heal).
As Thief vets, do you think it is wrong to batter everyone on the head with the black jack? Or is it more pro to leave everyone to their business and deal with it?
What is the best Thief game? Did you say that Thief 2 has more normal levels (as appose to monster levels such as the tomb (level 4))?
But what is the point of the library? I can create a windows 7 library, which saves the hassle of third party programs or loading time. I don't need to sign into a account (which I assume you need to do).
It's okay Raadec, I probably am more guilty of it than you. I just don't care much for Steam and ended up debating it. Everyone can do what they want, I just hope it doesn't contribute to the fall of CDs as I said.
Hopefully you have learned how to heal (I assume so if you know how to use your inventory now).
It isn't wrong to batter everyone, in fact it can be fun to try to bludgeon everybody in a level. But you are also right that it is more pro to let people do their buisiness (part of the ever challenging Lytha way).
Thief 2 is the best for me. I never made it too far into Thief 1 honestly. If you have beat the Bonehoard, you are only a couple of levels from where I stopped. Yeah, I didn't really do much with Thief 1 in comparison to 2 due to the curse. You will later be talking about areas that I probably never reached. Though in Thief 2 I will be able to recall exactly, playing that game to the point that every room is ingrained in my memory (except the final as I wanted to play Thief Gold first, that didn't work as expected).
Also, you are right that Thief 2 has more normal levels. The first few will be like Thief 1 but without a focus on the supernatural (though they do exist). Later in the game it starts focusing more and more on a new faction that you won't see in the first game. Thief 1 is extremely supernatual in comparison, with few levels involving just humans (like Baffords) if I remember correctly.
It is important to know that Thief Gold and Thief 2 were made on the same engine and thus are much the same. The transition from Thief 2 to Thief 3 will be a lot like Hexen to Hexen 2, a new engine and a lot of different gameplay (plus made by a different company, albeit many of the people from the original). Thief 1 and 2 are on the same engine with only minor differences between them (Thief 2 adds more variety in the form of races and gender, plus legs are less skinny).
Oh, how I wish to go back to Thief Gold right now. No! I must strive to continue Quake wikia. Every time I read a D&D map I would think Thief...
Well, the Library is just where it shows all of your game. As you can see, you can just choose a game, see your achievements, look at the workshop, your friends' relation, and discussions.
Also, if you want to play Thief, go do it. I don't think anything will happen to the wiki, since it isn't exactly active, editing wise. I expect no vandalism. Plus, with the topic of Quake, I don't think it is a target for 12-year-old boys who think it's funny to mess up a wiki. I think Raadec, myself and the other active contributors can watch it.
Christmas and the Summer holidays are the best times for sad little shits to spend their lives vandalising a wiki. Schools out, they have no friends and they need to feel like they own the world. What better way to feed their sense of entitlement than to write rude words on a wiki that has little attention? But seriously, the holidays have seen increased number of spammers so we must keep an eye out.
I noticed someone came to you Death about banning an IP address. As long as we have people who recall this info to us followed by us acting on said info we can keep on top of it.
I thought the Prison level had a good balance between zombies and humans. But the next level (tomb) is just zombies and other monsters. The stealth aspect seems to go out of the window against anything other than humans. The piss poor combat is good because it makes you want to take the stealthy approach but already I'm being forced to use combat. I'm not criticising just commenting. I am still looking forward to playing it more and more.
Well, Quake doesn't seem like a big thing to kids. That's if they even know about the game. And, the Quake community is more serious and mature. I doubt that we will be seeing any vandalizers here, but we will see them.
And about the levels, and such, you'll get that throughout the game. Other than that, stealthy aspects is more approached than combat. You'll get use to it, or just get a hang of it.
I wouldn't be entirely gone, I just won't be coming back for some time (when I was more positive I could otherwise in early 2014). I am not afraid of watching it. It is more of a responsibility of an admin I guess. Just like as you gave up your rights when you weren't active, I feel that the admins can remain admins even when not active as they are likely to return. I have had an extended leave and was planning on expanding to Quake II after handling Quake. This shouldn't just be a social site for me, I should still be able to contribute.
I can't believe it is almost Christmas. Time flies too fast. If you guys can tolerate a longer wait on my return to the walkthroughs, I might just jump over to Thief. It has been too long. I don't think Raadec would hold it against me, as he said he has been in similar situations. If Vork remains active perhaps he could also give his opinion, but it seems like Ninja also wouldn't mind.
Yes, someone did come to me about banning an IP. Course, you could also note comments about our inactivity to act.
You are true about Thief going away from the stealth aspect. That is part of the reason Thief II focused more on humans. Still, it is fun to be a swashbuckler fighting against the Undead from time to time. Be prepared for a lot of that style in the first game. Though if I remember correctly, I think you will like the next level if you like stealth...
Today I will get Thief out of storage. If nobody has disagreed by then I might just jump ship and go to Thief. I will still be around to talk at least. And I will be able to tell what that taffer Raadec will be seeing :P.
As you do have your rights as admin and the duties you have to undertake, you're right about still contributing in a way even if you do end up being inactive.
And yes, this year went way too fast. I've been playing a lot of games recently, and been planning and get a lot more for my PC. But if you want to play a game, take all the time you want. I don't think anyone will tell you to not play a game and you're forced to edit on a wiki.
Well, go play some Thief then. I will get it very soon on Steam (been wasting my money away on The Elder Scrolls). I've recently started to play Morrowind on my PC for about the 10th time (played it on consoles). So I'll be playing that along with others for awhile.
I have been spending this year mostly on reading and doing other useless garbage between an increased load of work. Even though it slowed down, I still was reading. It is about time I play a game. Just getting the game puts smiles on my face (already got it, it was not far from my house at all).
XD, I hope not. I don't see any psychos with guns saying I need to do such, so I feel I am safe at this time :P.
I am waiting for setup.exe to start... Raadec, did it take a long time for the setup to start? It seems to be running according to Task Manager, and some sites say it takes about an hour on newer systems. I also am aware of having to fix my processors to just one. Raadec, when this installation starts (with the NT skip, you never mentioned it but I assume you had to do such as I remember doing it on my XP), I will be coming for you!
EDIT: It's alive! I got the processors set to 1, found my DromEd to be in working condition, and the video bug should be fixed. It is much easier installing Thief than it was 8 years ago, even though I feared I would have to use a third party patch. I wanted vanilla badly so it is good to have it as pure as possible.
Playing the game so far is as good as I remembered it. Everything is so counter intuitive! When I used to play it, I used the arrow keys and was not acquainted with AWSD. Now I find W and S both move forward, and X moves back! I understand its purpose, just makes it different. Plus, I natuarally drift to the turn keys in an attempt to strafe. Still, already some of my growing pains are gone and I am getting back into the game!
I will say it again, you are not being forced to work on this wiki. You do it because you enjoy it. Like all things you enjoy you will eventually want to do something else.
Glad you still enjoy it. I changed all the controls to my normal FPS set up. Perhaps the installation is different because I have Collections and I assume you have the original disc. Are you having any issues? Game freezes/crashes?
I'd say lets see who can complete it first but I can't play during the week as the game is on my desktop at my other home :(
I am addicted to this game like I used to be. Everything is just as good, perhaps even better with my headphones not being cheaply contructed. I played for eight hours straight.
I am keeping the default controls. I have pretty much already learned from my stumbles and have navigated rather well. No issues over here, after fixing that multi-core issue and video issue (and getting the stupid installer to work, that was the worst) my game has been running very smoothly. The biggest glitch I notice is a speedup in the shop, items spin at 9000 miles per hour. It is a minor affect and doesn't really bother gameplay, otherwise I would have already looked up how to fix it.
I also noticed an odd glitch. If I save while a guard is searching for me, on a restart he will have stopped and will just stand there. Good, I can now knock him out! Yet suddenly when you get close he will turn and search, of course seeing you and start to attack. Even if you knock him out before he sees you, he is alert and will attack you. There is only one exception to the rule, it seems when in complete darkness they go down fine. Flash Bombs also do the trick. Anything which disrupts their sight.
This game isn't to race anyway. it is a nice slow paced game that is to enjoy. Sorry to hear you won't be able to continue to next week :(. Plus, I am kinda at a disadvantage. I am playing as I always would play, on Expert.
Level 1 (Training) is absolutely no different. Level 2 (Baffords) only has a objective to get 700 loot. Level 3 (Craigsleft) seems to be where the changes start to occur and you have to go more out of your way. I don't know how much you explore, but I end up going everywhere and knocking out everybody (even if it is normally impossible or useless).
Wait, are you still in the Bonehoard? How far into the level have you made it? I actually finished my playing spree at the start of that level and assumed you already beat it.
I have cleared out the first two chambers and had a walkie around those tunnels that don't show on the map. I haven't completed it yet.
There is a permanent way to make the game run automatically on 1 core but it involves messing with System 32. I have no problems messing with System 32 but when it involves putting a file downloaded from the internet (off of a forum) into it you might as well wear a sign revealing to the world you are a dummy.
The first two chambers from the start of the level? I will have to see what you mean tunnels not on the map too. I would ask more specifically, but I don't want to spoil what might be coming up.
I will be continuing tonight and probably will finish. Don't worry though Raadec, you will make it to the second game before me. I plan on going through a ton of fan missions and doing some stuff with DromEd first. Seeing the default texture brings back so many memories...
Anytime. I just finished the Bonehoard. Funny, I had completely forgotten how to navigate the map. I also forgot a glitch that existed in Thief Gold (I don't recall it ever happening in Thief 2, but last time I played I had problems in the exact same areas). I don't know if you have used a rope yet, but they aren't the easiest things to climb at times. Either you shoot up and drop off, immediately dying, or you just drop from the bottom and cannot access it at all. I think a great part of my time was trying to get on some of those stupid ropes. Ladders work perfectly, ropes are almost broken (for some reason restarting the game seemed to help me be able to climb one that seemed impossible). Hopefully you have better luck.
Thursday? Well, that isn't the end of the week!
Also, I think I have an idea of where you are. I got disoriented and started asking myself where I was. Let's just say the map didn't help much.
It is great to replay this game. It is like returning home. Most people don't have guards, zombies, and treasure to steal in their homes though...
My housemate was playing Dead Space 2 this evening when I got in. As I walked through the living room to the stairs, I watched the TV for 1 minute. He was shooting loads of aliens, the volume was high and all you could hear was 'pow pow pow explosion pow glack glack pow even bigger explosion'. The screen was a mess of bright lights, fire, laser cannons and giant aliens flashing at you.
I then thought about the factory area in level 3 of Thief, walking quietly through a dark corridor and watching a guard making hammers in his furnace. To each his own but for me that silent trek in the shadows of Thief is much more entertaining than shooting waves of Aliens with a giant big flashy death ray gun.
At least even Quake has some sort of tameness to it.
I just want Thursday to come so I can home and get to level 5 which you say is more human based. I want to trek through the corridors as if I wasn't even there, bobbing people on the head as a last resort.
I have long weekends now and again. This weekend is one of them. Also is it my Birthday on the 15th and I will have fillet steak and play Thief and eat cake. Go me :)
I have the original Dead Space. It is okay, but it just doesn't have the replayablility of old school games. The cutscenes are too long, not skippable, ect. I felt more like watching a movie than playing a game.
Ah, the factory. It is interesting that we had idle npcs that were scripted to do such interesting things back in 98.
Quake tame? I guess it is how fast or slow you play, I thought it was a bit faster paced than modern games. Then again, I like to strafejump a lot (I even do it in Thief if I know I need to traverse a long area and no guards are around).
Level 5 is more human based. Just beat it. I am lucky I am thorough, otherwise I would have had more difficulty finding something that is only on Expert. Based on what you said, you will like the next level.
Also happy early Birthday! I suggest you steal a little extra in Thief in celebration :p.
So you playing through once and then redoing it in expert? Just like normal to hard makes it more fun, I think the added challenge of having to explore most of the places to achieve your goals makes it even more addicting. To each their own though.
I think I'll play Thief 2 in Expert after doing Thief in Hard. Can you bob them with your blackjack on Expert? If that's the case I should play Expert now because I've not had a single use for my sword (without reloading). I'm an Expert. I'll probably never kill another peep on Dishonoured again. It's about being the shadow. Completing great things and leaving the area as you found it.
Quake is tame because it hasn't got loads of shit happening all at once. I know what you mean. Fighting a bunch of enemies, vores, ogres (that room in the Black Cathedral) is a hell of a lot more fast paced and fun than taking cover against some humanoids and popping their heads one by one.
The bestest thing about Dishonoured is that it is based on Thief. So I can play either game and not need to miss the FPS stealth genre because then I can switch to the other. Games like Hitman and Splinter Cell never did it for me. I tried Hitman 2 not too long ago and got bored after the first level. I tried it ages ago and got bored after the first level. I tried MGS2 Sons of Liberty and got bored half way through. That was 3 years ago and never played it again since.
The one thing I struggle with is knowing which floors are loud and which are quiet. I'm sure I can walk on stone and not make a sound but other times I walk on stone and the guard turns around and see's me.
Yes, you can wack them with the blackjack. You just cannot kill anyone (people, supernatural don't count), which prohibits the sword or broadhead. Thief 2 on expert is good, probably a great choice on your part. The one thing I can say about Thief Gold is that it often requires you to chase down some other trinket, which might be more difficult to find then the main objective. Be thorough and start thinking where the developers might hide something. I don't think I have ever played on a lower difficulty, besides goofing around and killing guards. I actually find the sword combat rather easy due to training, yet as you said it is more about stealth.
Quake doesn't have a lot happening at once but it has a lot happening at once? You kinda defeated your own argument with the third sentence...
I never tried Dishonoured, couldn't tell how similar it is.
The guards turn around sometimes just due to rotating their position (like the hammerites on craigsleft). If you alerted them previously they might also be glitched as I described before when trying out Bafford's Manor (they appear idle, but will attack as soon as you try to blackjack them). If you jump on stone (same as jumping on wood), they can hear you, but walking usually has no problems. Just beware of marble (often in galleries, the loud tiles) and metal (such as the training mission's sound test).
Ropes are very glitched indeed. I've not used the rope arrow yet though. Is it good to always have a few in your inventory or do they never come into much use?
I've not used any arrows really apart from the holy water arrow. I'm sure the water arrows will come into use when the game gets harder. Or do they?
You should try Dishonoured, even if you only rent it. You'll probably get right into instantly just like I have for Thief. You might be weary about the powers but they really do improve the overall experience. There's nothing better than sneaking past some guards in an alleyway by teleporting to the guttering above and then teleporting onto a rooftop above. You can look down as they continue their convocation before continuing on your way.
I was talking about simple preset ropes as well. Depends on the map I guess when it involves rope arrows. There are certain levels where you will be much better off using rope arrows.
The holy water arrow is great against zombies. And you will probably find more of a use for dousing torches as the game progresses.
Eh, might eventually try it just like you did Thief. Right now I am too much into Thief to go to something else. I am working towards where I gave up last time I played through. I have already hit missions that I completely forget the layout for and thus might as well be a blind playthrough.
Luckily I have a lot more patience than I did back then. I wonder if I might have even used walkthroughs prior to that point, I know I was apt to be impatient when younger and faqs were so tempting. Hopefully you don't resort to the route I did and instead do it like I am trying now, patience and logic. So far it seems to pay off, mostly with me blundering into whatever treasure I was supposed to steal almost completely by accident. I have yet to hit a point where I am completely at a loss for continuing, like I used to encounter.
Tomorrow will be your return to Thief I guess. The whole undead thing, such as in the Bonehoard, seems to have been Looking Glass Studio's lack of confidence in the genre. They felt they needed more of a platformer like Tomb Raider in order to achieve success. When many complained, we ended up with Thief 2 with a focus on humans. Others, like me, grew to like it due to it just being another challenge. I don't think there is a Thief map that can go wrong, even that fan mission that was a test of DromEd and consisted of me jumping out of a door was amazing. That is just the magic of the game I guess, even the worst fan maps can become great in the best games.
So, you sticking with Hard or going to Expert? Know that you will have extra challenges on Expert beyond not killing anybody.
The whole idea of stealth is all about patience and logic. I guess you stopped as a kid because playing Thief like Quake would have been very hard. I don't know why it's taken so long for me to really enjoy Stealth. On Killzone I was the guy always at the back of the map with the sniper rifle. For that you need patience and logic. There is nothing I enjoy more on a multiplayer FPS then sniping someone from miles away.
I think the idea of Monsters is ok as long as it doesn't make it too difficult due to the bad combat mechanics.
I think I will stick with Hard. But I might change my mind as I still have over 24 hours before I'll be on Thief again. I have played Dishonoured on the 3rd difficulty but I think next time I will play it on the 4th and hardest. I will deffo play Thief 2 on Expert.
Actually I played both ways as a kid and was playing stealth before I ever touched an FPS. I just was a quick trigger finger away from a walkthrough if I am correct. But I knew when I was doing stealth versus killing. Eh, in an FPS I always love the frontlines and would rather be charging at every enemy with an assault rifle (Everyone I played with was shocked how accurate I was, but my flaw was I didn't know the maps). I just prefer charging in Quake or Unreal than COD, because you lose the element of exploration. You know where you are in COD. It is your job to figure it out and move forward in old school FPS.
I guess it depends how good you are at Thief when it comes to combat. I am so used to it that I have just loaded up levels on normal and had killing sessions (or expert and lose after the first one). Me, I play the game in many different ways, usually under different saves when goofing around. I also just ran through Bafford's through the main gate and got the scepter plus the gold before leaving, without one piece of stealth. I ran through Craigsleft, though the Expert objective makes it quite difficult to get out without stealth.
Hard is good for Thief Gold, doing the hardest difficulty is usually finding something that is more difficult than the objective. I think that the extra objective in the bonehoard has many more challenges in comparison to the ones you are after. I guess that is why they call it Expert. On the other hand, I don't think Thief 2 hides objectives from you (but each level has secrets to find like in Quake, apparently Thief Gold doesn't have that based on no mention of it in the stats).
I couldn't tell you if it works with Thief 2. You have to remember, it has been even longer since I touched Thief 2. Maybe 11-12 years ago. When you do Thief 2, try it out. Just create a backup in case it gets corrupted, but I assume it might work due to both being on the same engine (a lot will look and sound familiar in Thief 2).
You are still in the Bonehoard? Where are you now?
Still on Bonehoard. I have been watching my favourite TV series of all time, Gundam Wing. Last weekend I cut off at the point right before the final arc, the Final Battle. Nine episodes of pure adrenaline rush.
After getting home I have put up the Christmas Tree, played a little Thief and watched the first part of this magnificent finale. It is the perfect TV series for me because for me it has the perfect story. For me a perfect story is all that counts. To make up a perfect story you need characters that you care about and a situation they are put in that you care about. Gundam Wing has this... no... is this.
I know everyone has their perfect story. I wonder what yours is.
I will playing Thief properly tomorrow. I fully expect to complete multiple levels. You'll see :)
I will let you know if that core file works for Thief 2. I'll look tomorrow.
No, I meant more what part of Bonehoard. I tried watching some anime lately, Armitage III. Still can't get into the whole thing, the appearance still bugs me.
I think Thief has a perfect story too. You will have to work a bit though before it really starts, think of the missions you are in as the disconnected intro. So, Thief is mine especially when it really starts up.
Multiple levels, good luck! You will need a bit to catch up to me, though I don't recommend you rush (I am extremely slow, I just play for 9-10 hours at a time (course, that counts watching lets plays and map information after finishing, the actual levels are usually 2-3 hours). I just finished an amazing mission that I can't wait for you to reach. Very close to entirely new levels, hopefully I have better luck there.
Good luck getting it to work on Thief 2. Don't play it yet though!
Wonder what happened to Ninja. He probably went to play with friends when we both decided to go through Thief.
I have reached the chamber with bridges and shapes and that face that tells me to stay away but I won’t say why cos’ it will spoil it for a certain ninja.
Us three dudes playing Thief at the same time. Not even Quake can do that and we’re on QuakeWiki.
I’m going to copy DoE files to my laptop and play it during the week. If I set my self a target, above that of edit enforcer, I can truly become active again. I think it will be fun again just like it used to be when QuakeWiki was a pile of shit. I guess I feel that I and the other two Admins (before even your time Death) did a good job at bringing QuakeWiki back to life. I still remember searching up QuakeWiki in 2009 and finding it beyond useless. I can take the credit for reviving it but just like any Wikia it is never finished, and I can’t take much credit for its continued success. It’s time to for the third era.
We set out to make QuakeWiki the ultimate source of Quake and I think it is. Where-else can you find detailed info on the Guardians of Quake or the Dragon? The foundations are in place so let’s build. I do realise that you guys and others have continued work on Quakewiki in my absence and my determination to help is little compared to the big picture. But going back to 2009, in one year the wiki was greatly approved so here to another great year.
Nice, even Ninja is playing now :). This has become the Thief Gold playing thread! Ironic, isn't it. This is supposed to be a place for Quake, yet we get 3 people who end up getting together to play Thief.
Raadec is on the Bonehoard, so no it is not just with Gold. Well, maybe, I also know that the original levels were improved. I have heard that Bafford's might not have that cave, the guards in Craigsleft patrol a lot less, and the Bonehoard repeats a few duller textures repeatedly in the original. Gold also made the first Easter Egg (Training) for all difficulties if I am correct as well as changing the text, whilst adding a second Easter Egg (which I never saw and only heard of until this playthrough, when I ended up deciding after finishing the mission to find out how to access it, which is kinda legal as it is a obscure secret and not an objective so I don't feel like I cheated. I feel like an idiot now that it is so simple and walked past it 10 or so times due to noticing the entrance). The Blooper Reel mission accessed through DromEd (which I have yet to do, but will upon completion) seems to also be from Thief Gold.
Sorry for all the vagueness Ninja, but while Raadec tries not to spoil it for you I am trying not to spoil too much for Raadec. I am quite a bit further than him, but he probably will soon catch me due to his speed on the missions (probably also helps to be on a lower difficulty). Taking a few hours on every mission shows how slow paced I am as I attempt to explore every room in every level that I can find. So we both have different styles as we attempt to be master taffers. Have fun Ninja, I bet you will be faster than both of us. But, as said, part of it is the slow pacedness and stealth. I have actually just reached the mission that I never was able to beat due not finding a way forward/restarting. So after beating this level it will be all new territory for me (though by now I am pretty much playing blind as I have no recollection of what to expect).
I remember the face very vividly, that is one of the areas that the rope arrow just failed to function. I ended up having to reload the game which somehow fixed my problem. Raadec has yet to reach an extra level for Gold.
Also, I hope to beat it finally after years of procrastinating to do such. No more returning for no reason (though I do replay the old missons in other saves earlier in the night so as to have it fully dark when I explore the new level). I also have learned how to NPC Jump, though it isn't very controlled and I am still working to get onto the window in the training level.
Hopefully QuakeWiki will become a lot bigger, I have tried to expand it as I could in the Quake 1 direction which should lay templates for the other games and expansions. I even have a template that was never used for the multiplayer maps, so someone else could probably easily complete those. Right now I am too much into my addiction (plus, it is difficult for me to play 2 games at once, I tried that with Quake and Unreal yet became confused, both of those are similar in function so I would be scared to do something like that with Thief).
Congrats on beating the Bonehoard. Glad you didn't need to use a walkthrough (yesterday I had a similar struggle when trying to find 80 loot). It couldn't have been easy to think with that Fire Shadow continously around.
So now you have made it to a human based level! Be careful of Hammerites, they are powerful with their hammers and can be rather alert.
Ninja, I assume your playing it on Expert? You probably are more qualified to do it than me due to beating the game, but I do a good job of blundering on things.
Speedy, though what could we expect from a veteran. Don't forget to knock out Cutty, you might just save his life. I also wonder if it would be possible (but time consuming) to lead the zombie added on Expert by the stairs to the prison. He could be a great executioner for those prisoners, especially that Bafford's guy that seems to love his cell.
Also, I happen to have passed the point where I was stuck before and have beat the mission, so from this point on it will be all new to me. I can't believe I did not notice such a simple little thing before, which leads me to believe I did not put much effort into looking and just wanted to restart as I have said.
Bad news is that my videos decided to give out suddenly. I would be in trouble as quickly consulting the internet seems to have a large number of solutions with little to no success probably, had I not remembered GarrettLoader. For some reason the main site is down, meaning I had to go on a little hunt for it, but it now is set up and my videos are working properly again (and should continue to do such due to GL's auto reset of video codecs). Hopefully it doesn't die on either of you, but for me it was just earlier than planned due to the focus I planned on FMs (which is its primary function).
You can actually save Cutty? I just watched that fat idiot die.
I'm only on Thief Guild so can't say much about where you are. Although I can say that I have managed to spend 20 seconds on Thief 2 without the game freezing. I can conclude from this that Thief 2 does not care about running with 4 cores.
Go Thief 2.
Also please, as I do not have and have not had time to put Quake and DoE on my laptop today, please send me a big message to remind me to do it tomorrow otherwise I won't have it for next week. I will look forward to seeing what you interpretation of a 'big message' is. Good luck.
Yeah, I heard that Thieves' Guild is a bonus level for Gold? I never played Gold before, so I suppose I got another thing coming. And I almost have all my goals for Bonehoard, I believe. As I've only got Gold, I'm not sure about your problem with Thief 2. I've never had any problems with Gold so far.
Also, you are almost to The Sword, which is a great level. Have fun with it.
Eh, it is probably a glitch. He should die. I think knocking him out might fix it. It seems enemies attacking him also breaks it.
Congrats on beating Assassins Raadec. As you can see, it is a series of human levels in the style you wanted. Thieves Guild is a good mission, though it is the one that I got stuck on my replay (as I said, I tried the game again after getting stuck at some level that is a bit further and got disoriented on this map due to the sun reflecting too much on my monitor).
Thieves' Guild is a bonus level for Gold Ninja. I am surprised, I assumed when you said you finished Thief you meant Gold as well. The gold missions are interesting, they are quite expansive and take some time to complete. As said, I got stuck on the replay of Thieves Guild eight years ago. The second Gold exclusive mission (which I won't name yet) is where I made the most progress and stopped due to missing something that should have been extremely obvious (either it was due to a lack of exploring or the fragmented way I did everything, sharing a computer means you don't get to spend 9 hours working on what you are trying to do). Therefore I am right now just past that second exclusive mission (that should be adaquate without giving away any details to Raadec) and have no idea what to expect (which is unlike everything up to this point as I had fragmented pieces of memory to work with). Then again there was enough of the last mission I missed to be amazed by.
You would be right Ninja, though I was not trying to say anything yet! The Sword is an amazing level. Wait, if you never played Thief Gold, you never saw the easter egg there. I think the easter egg just adds to the awesomeness of that level (I have a save just to replay that section).
Thief 2 will be interesting to replay after all this. I will need to dig it up (it is much older and is probably stored in some bag with hundreds of other games). Not really concerned yet as I will be playing a lot of Fan Missions as I said (Garretloader is as good as I remembered).
Nope, I've never played Gold, surprisingly (until now, obviously). So I have a lot of things that are new to me. I've played through the original Thief, I believe through most of Thief 2, and not much on Thief 3.
And yes, I realized the Fire Shadow is new. Quite difficult. :P
Oh, sorry I took it so literal. I thought for a minute you knew precisely how far you had to go :P.
So I guess you are stuck with the Thieves for a bit based on not being able to do much this weekend. With Christmas coming up I might actually slow down due to family and whatnot. The fan missions will be interesting (hopefully I have good luck with rope arrows, it seems that since the Bonehoard they have been working with me).
I also replayed Bafford's last night, purely to mess with those front gate guards. I know you are supposed to leave via the side way, but the front door is so tempting! Me being a master thief and all, I knew it was my obligation to knock out those guys as well and just leave via the front door. Course, I did the same thing in my regular playthrough, but it does get interesting (especially when running halfway across the mansion after failing to sneak on the tiles with three guards on your tail).
EDIT: Just assuming, but I think I am nearing the end. All without needing to consult a walkthrough beyond that time for the easter egg. I came close on the last level but ended up blundering on what I was looking for after searching for two hours (difference between average time to complete versus mine, it might just be me going slower but I believe it had something also to do with that one part) just before I read the walkthrough and after I had opened the document (I guess it doesn't count if you don't actually read it, but it just goes to show how close I was). Apparently it is infamous for being a pain to find. Good luck Raadec, hopefully you will luck out as well.
Apparently I am extremely lucky when it comes to blundering on things. It keeps saving me in this game. Maybe they purposefully put things in such a way that they will be blundered upon, but it always seems very easy to miss and can cause the player to wander aimlessly (some levels on the other hand seem very objective on where to go and by exploring the place you can achieve the loot objective). Not complaining, but it definately adds skill or luck (which I believe I have some of both) to the game.
You have time this week Raadec or are you deadlocked until Christmas week?
I tried Elder Scrolls Arena again. Even though both games use swords, the latter game doesn't thrill me in its combat. Furthermore, I seem to have more skill with Thief than with Elder Scrolls (even though Garrett is said not to survive long in combat). In my defense it took 5 times to figure out how to attack. I don't think Thief was so counter-intuitive (especially when I have played both before and had been away from Thief for a longer period of time). I wish more games used the sword as a viable weapon and actually managed it like Thief did (ironically I hear complaints about the combat). Maybe later Elder Scrolls fixed it, but Arena (based on combat) definately makes Thief (based on stealth) seem fast paced.
Exactly, the Thief Gold missions are quite long but can be fun. Good luck on the Sword, it is a good mission as has been mentioned before.
I left nobody awake in the end. Even if they were not in my way :). Finished the game the other day and enjoyed it greatly. I have already been going through fan missions and plan to look at System Shock (made by the same people, curious if it is any good) before going to Thief 2. A lot of good stuff coming up!
At least I feel now that using the black jack is not a wimpy way out. Even when you do set out to use it it's not as easy as using the Super-Shotgun. You still need to use shadows, watch what you step on and use every bit of stealth skill you have.
I'm in work Monday and Tuesday and then have until 6th of Jan off.
Exactly, sometimes it is actually harder to knock out every person. Some get in your way, but others do not. Remember the front gate guards of Baffords? Now imagine your goal was to knock them out as well. The only thing wimpy might be the speed potion. Going fast in a game requiring being slow and being stealthy? Only time I use it is when I purposely planned out to run somewhere and want to get a large number of guards after me (I did not do this at all in my playthrough and only use it for goofing around when I don't have time for strategy).
Recently I busted into Baffords to get a slice of bread. Apparently the guards didn't want me to leave, but I did deliver it to some family. For the effort, I should have grabbed a piece of cheese for myself.
There is actually an interesting glitch with the blackjack that I try not to use if I can help it. I think I only took advantage in the fan missions that were incomplete and broken. Similarily I try to prevent NPC jumping and guard drowning.
Also about the blackjack, if you don't use it you are doing one of the steps of the official ghosting rules (made to make Thief a much more challenging experience). Now just play on expert, place keys and other objects besides loot back when you are done, don't cause any property damage, and close all doors behind you (the last of which I have a tendency to do anyway). I cannot do ghosting as I love bonking guards too much, steal food, and slash every banner I see. Plus I am not so skilled to have never had a guard start searching for me, that usually happens at some point in the level.
Lately I tried to see what the hype about the HD Thief patch was about (almost every video on youtube now seems to be with it, though that is a lot to do with the fact that many have trouble installing the original game). I didn't try all the models, but the ones I did try looked horrible and out of place. Textures were too fuzzy and the lock on footlockers just bothered me entirely. The only thing "improved" was the detail on paintings and the roundness of certain objects (which also looked inappropriate with texture choices). If you want a better Thief try the Dark Mod, but the original game seems to look best when you have the vanilla game (I also tried a sound enhancement, which basically just made things sound muffled to me). So congrats to us for not going NewDark and instead playing vanilla. Most people dislike the graphics, even back when it was originally released. I cannot tell the difference between Unreal and Thief in a graphical comparison, maybe I am wearing the wrong shades.
The blooper reel is awesome as well, though I do advise you beat the game before trying that (or in fact before doing fan missions, I could have seen some big spoilers if I didn't do it in the order I did it in).
So that means starting Wednesday you will have time for plenty of taffing!
Unreal looks a little better I think. However some idiots thought Quake 2 had bad graphics so you can't listen to people. The ye old'e time graphics seen in Quake, Unreal and Thief are done very well in the late 90's engines. I've never been a fan of custom graphics. Even the ones that might be an improvement are not really any better than the original.
What do you think are the best and worst levels in Thief?
Quake 2 seems to look decent for late 90s graphics. In my opinion I think Quake 1 looks better, Quake 2 seems to be a little blurry. Course, you can tell little from pictures, for some reason I used to think Quake was a sprite based game.
I am assuming you are asking for Thief 1 and not Thief 2; plus making it only the original missions? Based on that...
My tastes are not ones to go by, as I usually seem to like what many others hate. But since you asked, you have yet to see either. The best and worst are right next to each other, with the worst being sandwiched between two awesome levels. Course anything after the best I also view as awesome and would put nearly beside the best. Most people hate that part of the game, viewing the game as ending at the worst level.
The worst is the combination of multiple problems. It is relatively easy, even without using a blackjack. The designers tried implementing some things there that were different than before, meaning it can be a bit confusing (not that big of an issue). The mechanic is somewhat broken, meaning that you might have problems without even doing anything wrong. It was the level that I was hinting at almost using a walkthrough before blundering on something because they try to reference something to do with architecture, hopefully you are more familiar with parts of buildings than I was. It didn't help that looking up the definition caused me to connect it with another definition for the word due to it making more sense. Furthermore, another document in the level just happened to mention something that also led me astray. Furthermore they selected certain textures and paintings that further led me astray. Pretty much everything could have fit the bill, causing many people in Thief to get in the same situation as I did (yet having to use said walkthrough). It took me running in circles for 2 hours before I found it, but I finally did. Sadly, now that I did that, there is absolutely no replay value (besides to goof around).
Ironically that was the level I loaded yesterday. I stole some bread in revenge for my trouble and threw it to the neighbors. It also sent everybody into a rampage so it was a perfect time to test the number I could blind at once with one flashbomb.
Hopefully I kept things vague enough at this point not to give anything away. Good luck on The Sword, it is a good level and has the best level design.
In my opinion Thief 2 has awesome level design. The exploration is more rewarding (with secrets and regular items). Some of the levels feel quite vast. It would be hard to choose a best, with the worst still being that Thief 1 level. Will be interesting to see how it feels after replaying.
Well, I am off to The Skull of Lysander, the final FM of June 1999. Most aren't so good yet, but Gathering at the Bar might be an exception due to the intricateness of the level, the fact that it is the first to have custom stuff, it has a ton of easter eggs, and is quite a challenge on expert due to you not having a blackjack.
Oh boy, now I see why you two like The Sword. Constantine is one fucked up dude. The mixture of freaky rooms and gardens reminds me of the Finale of 'Mysteries of the Sith', arguably one of the greatest made levels in any game.
The Sword is more difficult purely because there are so many hard tile floors. How many times must I hear some stupid guard call me 'Tap-Tap' (or something like that)? It is fun though as it has a great combination between the cool looking Bonehoard but the human-enemy based levels I love so much.
Currently half way through the Sword.
I don't know if I'll even get to Thief 2 before X'mas hols are over. I enjoy it greatly but Thief requires patience unlike any other game and sometimes I can lose patience. Most of the time I need a mere minutes before I am back in the stride. But if each level takes 1 to 2 hours to complete (2 to 4 hours if counting reload), I'm going to be at this for a long time. And you know what? I love it!
So many games are over in days or a week. To know I have this game that'll keep me entertained for weeks is so cool!
Hahaha, the rooms are amazing. Garrett also said that Constantine is just a tad eccentric.
The tile floors don't help. It does add to the challenge of being stealthy, not so easy to blackjack guards now is it? I have never heard them call you "Tap-Tap". I think you mean Taffer. It is pretty much a slang word used throughout the world of Thief. Though there has been debate on what it means, the project designer has stated that it pretty much is any sort of low life.
Surprised to hear you liked the Bonehoard. Many that hated monster levels disliked that one entirely. My only gripe is the rope glitch combined with numerous parts that you need to descend via rope. Still, besides the Sword it is probably my favorite level you have hit so far.
1-2 hours. Sounds like the pace I did. It is a good speed and allows you to enjoy and immerse yourself in the world. It also, as you said, requires patience. I guess that is why I am not quick on replaying Assassins. I also completely gave up on trying to complete a frustrating fan mission last night called Kabooze. Extremely large level with nothing but long empty streets combined with small items hidden on the ground that are required to complete the mission. Also, I learned something. The things I can do to make an enemy sucide itself (out of frustration of not getting any weapons) and therefore not count as I killed the enemy can also hurt when said objective requires me to kill an enemy. I had to kill a hammer priest, yet couldn't finish the mission as the hammer priest had killed himself. As part of the level was to have infighting (but was broken so I had to lead violent enemies there that were supposed to lead me there). The hammer priest got glitched and couldn't move past a certain point, maybe as a failsafe. Lesson, I have found points in Thief (Fan missions mostly, not OMs, that cause frustration).
Thief is good at keeping you entertained. When people break that fun, it gets annoying. Some other FMs are very good, but not everything is roses. When you do get something like regular Thief that entertains you, wasting hours is not a problem. Another interesting thing is that as you can see, some require you to KILL. Others require skill and ghosting. I prefer the latter and can get quickly frustrated with the former. Guess I like being more of a thief than an assassin.
The interesting thing about mods and FMs is the length it adds to the original game. I just took a game that would take weeks and expanded into maybe a year or two (Apparently doing 1 a day would take at least 3 years). The junk ones get tossed, the good ones stay on my hard drive for when I am in the mood for replays (I do a lot of those a day too).
Also, those kill missions taught me something. I am apparently good at sword combat in Thief for a game which you aren't supposed to have skill and can be easily beaten. Took on 6 swordsmen and 2 archers, only losing some health to the latter. Continuing a kill streak, I loaded up the Sword and ran through the mission on Normal with mines and fire arrows. I think the hallways were just covered in guards...
Closest I got to those was Bubble Bobble. I got bored a few minutes in. For some reason I seem to like the darker stuff more than Nintendo titles.
XD, everything is like Dark Forces II? I seem to like both styles. When it comes to FPS or anything of that style I have always loved creatures and an expanded world. On the other hand, the human levels have more replay value in my eyes due to the fact that it is easier to mess with them. I think it just adds more variety than numerous humans on end. The supernatural is a great part of Thief.
You will definately prefer Thief II if you like human based. Plus some mechanics work better if I am correct in memory. When it comes to human based, I definately prefer the sequel's to Thief Gold's, with only one human level being well loved (it is one of the added levels).
Just to warn you, the next level may not be your style if you enjoy human based...
Some official levels can be below par. Others can be above par, like Armagon to the original Quake. In Thief's FMs, I still have yet to find ones that beat the original levels. Still, I find some levels give me an enjoyable experience. You would like them as most are human based (only monster one so far was due to necromancy). I especially enjoyed "The Library", finding it on par with some official levels and perhaps beating some of the lower liked levels. I have a problem with many of them though and have to dig through a bunch of garbage (I cannot stand spelling mistakes or blantant bugs in FMs as it kills the immersion, one of the higher rated series was therefore heavily disliked by me).
Many of the early FMs seemed to focus on Bafford's scepter. Lately it has been hammerites. Maybe undead are coming next! (similar to Baffords, Craigsleft, Bonehord).
I wonder if Ninja has hit Thieves Guild yet. That should give him some fun. There are just so many people to blackjack!
Kill 2 guards? KILL? What happened to stealth and the blackjack was the weak way out :P? Backs not against shadows... couldn't you have used a moss arrow? I think I know where you are. If so, I used the infamous stealth manuever of jumping up and down combined with the ever useful blackjack.
I actually have hit the point where I will sidetrack to System Shock (and the sequel). This is completely blind and based on my reaction I might be coming back to Thief immediately or in a short bit. I still have my eye on Thief II (not only is the official game better, but the fan missions as well).
Combat knife? Where are you? Also, if you feel that is weak, it isn't good when I run through the mansion with mines and blow up every guard I see. All over a piece of bread (for some reason I am always targeting bread, when I could just as easily go after deer legs).
XD, graphics wasn't Thief's strength. I notice some improvements in Thief II, like legs being normal and a better color resolution.
That would be hard as I have yet to play through most myself and am probably missing out on many. Based on your experiences I would say more human based levels, but that still leaves a wide variety.
System Shock started out interesting, yet so far I am either completely missing the ambience or just can't appreciate its age (the game reminds me a lot of Elder Scrolls which was made in the same year). It is complex, which is good, and presents quite a challenge. However, now it just feels tedious after running around the map numerous times looking for some hidden switch or other way forward whilst fighting respawning enemies. Maybe the sequel improved some things, but the original is nothing like what I had heard.
I think the storyline is difficult to follow due to it all being vocal, which requires decent audio. The problem is that the sound quality is on par with old Sierra games and therefore it is pretty much understanding small fragments. Just cleaned out most of floor 2 and the game seems to be picking up somewhat due to learning the controls. Still, I might just do this game to reach System Shock 2 (which sounds like it is more of an FPS than a point and click, plus Thief's engine definately will make it more familiar than the Ultima engine of this one).
EDIT: Well, turns out that System Shock has had an improved patch come out. I had heard about it before, but thought it was just a graphical update which I normally steer clear of. Seems the only update in graphics is just to make it cleaner on the screen. Otherwise I found an option to show text for audio and got a midi enhancer to eliminate the Nintendo vibe. Though it still shows its age (which is what I wanted) now I can at least play it and figure out what is going on. A replay of the first level (on highest difficulty again but with time limit off as I want to have time to just play the random minigames). was much more enjoyable with the fixes. I can definately see its influence on Doom 3, almost everything reminds me of it. Though the control scheme makes the game rather odd (the patch only gives a toggle for mouselook as you need to contantly switch huds), it seems to be better than Doom.
I tried Elder Scrolls 1 or 2 some time ago but got bored straight away. Game play was just not my cuppa-tea. I have enjoyed #5 quite a lot though. I play it in segments, as there's no way I can be interested to play it all in one go.
I was surprised by Doom 3. I thought it would be a lacking pile of mediocrity like Quake 4. Q4 is fun in the same way that low-budget zombie movies are basic but somewhat enjoyable entertainment. But it was no better than a low-budget zombie movie and well below par compared to Q1 and Q2. However Doom 3 was exceptional fun and managers to cross the gap between classic FPS from the 90's and the improved graphics of the early 00's.
Ah, if they are FPS enemies then they knew their place. They were simulations made by the most evil being, the computer itself :P. Made for you to injure them, to fight them, to destroy them.
At least they did improve gameplay. I had tried looking at Skyrim videos and it seemed as if only the graphics had changed. Quickly I turned away.
I still find Doom 3 to be rather lacking, though most of my problems are with the engine (and how it lagged on an old machine). Maybe I should try it again with more recent hardware and see how I feel. I also wanted to try the Dark Mod (Last time I only touched the beta as I had phased out in 2008 and it just managed to extend my interest a few more days before the lag depressed me once more).
Also, I think my sprite aversion is taking over. Though originally enjoyable (with the stress in between of learning controls and improving the look), suddenly the tediousness is extremely clear. The more I play it, the more it reminds me of Dark Forces. Only problem is that Dark Forces becomes just as boring after a bit of time. So I guess I won't be hitting SS2 and instead proceeding back to Thief.
Something dramatic changed around 1996 with Quake. I always say it must be the sprites, but there must be more to it. How can I be a graphics person yet enjoy Thief, which was lower in graphics for its time? Yet Wolfenstien feels too repetitive, Elder Scrolls had clunky gameplay, Dark Forces gets old really fast, System Shock has taboo controls and even shorter of a time before it causes boredom, and Doom just gets old after the hundredth or so WAD. On the other hand the later nineties had Thief, Unreal, Deus Ex, and Quake which were much better and cause me to get entirely immersed.
Hmm. Closest Elder Scrolls to my era of interest (Skyrim is too new for me) would be Morrowind (2002). That is somewhat recent though, could be definately cutting it close. Maybe I will eventually try it.
Anyway, back to Thief. I am looking forward to the very familiar guard models of the sequel. Plus, the replayability should be higher with more human levels (no wonder I played it so much over and over in comparison to Thief 1).
EDIT: A brief trial of System Shock II seems to fix everything I hated about 1. Still, I have been exploring the tutorial area so much that I have yet to hit any combat. It reminds me heavily of Doom 3, perhaps mixed with some Half Life (never played so not 100% sure on that). The oddest thing is the ambient sounds, they are all Thief's! Running on metal floors reminds me of being on clanky metal gratings in Thief Gold. Course, that is how I felt about SS1 before it started bugging me. We will see how repetitive it feels as I play through it before heading quickly to Thief again.
I don't care if a game looks like Doom or Doom 3, as long as it is fun. Basing on graphics alone I would say my preference is actually Unreal. It is much improved over DF2 and Q2 but it still has the same vibe that D3/Q4 lack. Although Thief is not as good, it is not dissimilar to Unreal and I prefer it to DF2 (still talking graphics here). However it would be interesting to see how Thief would look as a Star Wars game (or just a normal FPS) because I doubt those guards would look pleasing in light, open areas when shooting them. Thief if all about darkness, keeping distance and taking the enemy from behind. They look poorly drawn and ugly in the shadows, never mind in open sunlight.
Skyrim is fun but too big.
Perhaps nothing happened with Quake. Perhaps those later games were just more tailored to your preference. Taking Dark Forces and Unreal as examples, both are down to Earth bog standard FPS games with nothing much to do than walking around maps and shooting enemies. But they are still different, they feel, look and play very differently from each other. And in this case, the way Unreal happens to look, feel and play is more to your liking than Dark Forces.
Graphics normally don't matter, as long as they are 3d. I just have some problem with sprites that I can't seem to get over. It seems I constantly try to enjoy the older titles, yet cannot get into them. Thief fails in graphics, it is more of a gameplay based game. I seem to prefer old school to the round style of Doom 3, it just is more fun to bunny hop with the old physics as well. When I look at Thief though, I don't see a difference in graphics to Unreal. For some reason as long as it is polygonal, it looks the same to me.
Too big? You definately didn't play far into Elder Scrolls 2 (or 1). Either of those titles allows you to explore an entire continent, not just a section. Only problem is that there is little to do in said places. How does Skyrim compare with the mechanics in comparison to Thief? I assume Skyrim has a sword and a bow.
I guess that is a viable truth. Still, it is weird that polygon games in the later nineties I usually enjoy while sprite based from the early nineties are horrible.
For example, look at Dark Forces to Quake. What does the latter have that the former doesn't (not including multiplayer)?
System Shock II does do some great fixes. A lot of hotkeys exist and can be managed in a configuration menu that looks exactly like Thief. When enemies hear you, they start searching for you. There is some things in the game that even reminds me of certain things in Thief II, meaning it was a welcome return. Dead Space (did play for a bit, one of the only modern games I touched) seems to have been heavily influenced by it, the power nodes used to upgrade different fields is extremely familar. Also there is a shop to buy items that looks very similar. Both Dead Space, System Shock 2, and Doom 3 had introductory areas to show how the place looks before the action starts. They have calming military videos talking about the station. Audio logs exist everywhere and are accessed via a PDA. Doom 3 had Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3, SS2 has some arcade games as well. The list goes on, but this just shows how similar they are in idea to one another. The difference is that Dead Space plays like Resident Evil, Doom 3 like a horror/shooter mixup, and SS2 like an old school FPS.
Combat-wise, Skyrim actually feels like an updated version of Thief's combat. Everything down to sword combat and how it feels to fire an arrow. The only exception is that in Skyrim you can take on a group of enemies with ease (level depending). Skyrim's stealth however is very clunky and not even 1/8 of Thief's.
Going on my years old memory of Elder Scrolls 1and/or2, the idea of exploring would put me off more than the lack of fun gameplay did. That/those games were just, not-for-me, and no I didn't play long. It was closer to no minutes then it was to long.
What does Dark Forces have that Quake does not? For one, a very good story. Even you can't disagree on the fact that Quake is very lacking on the story department. In contrast Dark Forces has a very in-depth story involving the investigation and subsequent take-down of the Dark Trooper Project. Every level follows perfectly from the last to form one huge story with a start, middle and end. With Quake you could put the levels within an episode in any order and it would work. In some cases you could trade levels between episodes and it would still work. That shouts 'no story! no story!'
Interesting you mention Dead Space. It's hard to imagine that Thief can be compared to Dead Space via just one game, System Shock. As you might know, I found Dead Space to be a cluster-fuck of flashy lights and explosions, with no gameplay. Doom 3 is the only game so far where I have eagerly listened to and watched collectible files found throughout the levels of a game. Even now when playing Killzone: Shadow Fall, I do not care to find all the collectibles.
I can imagine stealth wasn't Skyrim's priority. I am glad they continued Thief's mechanics though, I had thought they had done stuff entirely different. You can take on a group of enemies in Thief with enough practice. To practice you just continually go toe to toe with one of the better combatants of the game (guards are too slow and easy for said practice). You would have seen what I meant if you played on Expert. Speaking of Expert, I wonder how Thief II introduces the first level (especially since there is something that fans would notice only if they had played on expert).
Exploring would actually interest me if done right. I don't like exploring in RPGs for one, the mechanics just never interest me. Now exploring in Thief is a different story.
No! I meant what does Quake have that Dark Forces does not? I knew Dark Forces had more story than Quake, almost any fps has a more detailed story than Quake!
It is interesting due to the fact that System Shock 2 uses the Thief mechanics and therefore answers your question on how it would look and work. I don't think it looks ugly at all! The only thing to know is that the Dark Engine was updated to add colored lighting, 16 bit textures (Thief Gold has 8), and fog support (though it might not work on modern systems based on the way it was done). Pretty much System Shock 2 is the test for Looking Glass Studios before doing Thief 2, which improves in said features.
Dead Space to me was not a game. It was a movie. The cutscenes took too long and the gameplay was repetitive. It had the modern style of "go here, don't go here". It offers no replayability, why should I want to play the game again after beating it? Plus there is even an achievement for just using the weakest gun in the game. I feel any game that you can beat with just one weapon has no gameplay.
Funny you eagerly enjoyed Doom 3 though. To me I could compare Dead Space to Doom 3 easily, stating both felt the same to me (except Doom 3 is harder to complete with just the pistol). Doom 3 felt just as linear and had the whole non-replayability problem I found in Dead Space. I was happy that Doom 3 allowed you to skip cutscenes. The one thing I can say is that Doom 3 has some sweet mods. I remember Last Man Standing, pretty much a survival mode that definately had the addicting replayability feature. Then we had the Dark Mod, which was made by fans of Thief for a more modern system and is therefore where much of the community has gone. Only problem was that it lagged too much on my old computer.
I never bothered to worry about collecting objects (besides ammo in normal FPS games and food in Thief). If I found them I found them.
Anyway, no playing games for me right now. I came down with some cold. It wouldn't be bad if the migranes would stop. Hopefully it calms down soon and I can get back to System Shock 2.
There's something about Doom 3 that I like. On the surface it and Q4 are identical but D3 just... has something? I 'unno, but I like it.
I played Doom 3 on my laptop which has the same specs as a £1800 gaming laptop so I had no lag. Perhaps you do need to try it again if the lag was the one thing that killed it for you.
Exploring is great in a great game. I just enjoy driving in GTA5 because there's a massive world and there's always something new to discover.
Having completed The Sword, I feel like I'm in a good position to decide which I prefer, Dishonoured or Thief. All things considering, Thief should be a clear winner here. It's basically Quake but Stealth. But I am still leaning towards Dishonoured.
Quake has better graphics. And... and... uh? I was going to say better guns, you know... the Super Shotgun kicks ass and the rest but then Dark Forces has the Concussion Rifle which in some ways is better than even Quake 2's BFG.
Doom 3 felt slower paced like more modern games. It was built mostly on triggers and events. The good part of the game was that exploration still existed and wasn't punishable like later FPS, plus regen health didn't exist, but it seems to definately be the missing link. What Doom 3 was good for was perhaps the engine (which I dislike at the same time due to the lag it causes of a few enemies, which might be my fault). There is a mod for Doom 3 called Last Man Standing that is pretty much a survival mode gamestyle for Doom 3 and therefore has a lot more replay value than the base game. The Dark Mod was another good one, being pretty much based on Thief (as far as they could go without breaking copyrights, they even have a light gem and it reminds me very much of Thief 3 in mechanics).
Maybe my computer couldn't take it now. Last time I touched System Shock 2 (still can't be on the computer long enough to get into it) I experienced some lag. I am not sure if it was due to some internal error however, as it was at the same time that I had problems with audio in that game. Apparently, even though a max volume switch exists, turning it up to the maximum amount (as I usually do, then I control my audio with my headphones) causes problems with the audio.
My desktop specs probably aren't as high as yours, in US dollars your computer would cost $2500. I have some new hardware I have yet to get working due to getting this cold right after getting the parts (including a powerful new graphics card due to a desire for native support of 4k textures). Still, hopefully by now it can be easy enough to play a game from 2004 on a decent computer.
Never touched an open world game so I couldn't explain how it feels to truly discover stuff in a world. The GTA series just never has been my taste.
The top level of the Sword definately is the best. Also, stick with the Thief series, I definately wonder how you will feel about the comparison by Thief II. I used to think there was little difference besides storyline elements, now the second obviously improves so many things based on some of my minor gripes with the first game. While Thief Gold is my second favorite game, it still is lacking what Thief II has.
So the only reason why I can prefer Quake to Dark Forces logically must be graphics. The Stormtrooper blaster rifles felt better in weaponry to Quake's (never saw the Concussion Rifle, only made it to the level after the sewers where you try to leap from rooftops and apparently have to just make it by sprinting across). You liked Quake's Super Shotgun? I actually found it to be too slow for my taste, I prefer the single shot under most conditions (Death Knights being the enemy that makes me usually want to use a Super Shotgun). Still, nothing beats the Flak Cannon of Unreal (thinking about it, I liked the Grenade Launcher in Quake a lot too).
Good luck on the Haunted Cathedral. I barely got by on my first playthrough with the loot objective. Being on hard should save some difficulty, but you definately will have to be vigilant. You should also meet some of my favorite creatures here, one of which I even dressed up for Halloween one year as a child. They are good practice, I always enjoy going toe to toe with them due to their difficulty (though knowing the limitations of the engine means I could take advantage of several known weaknesses that I try to avoid). No idea how far in the level you are.
My laptop only cost £1000 (down from £1200) because it isn't one those 'pay for the brand' things. It's an Asus. But if you paid for the brand (Alienware for example) with the same spec then it would cost £1800.
The Super Shotgun in both Quake and Quake 2 is one of my most favourite guns in all the gaming world. As long as I have shells I use the SSG. It's only when I meet tougher enemies that I use my saved up Cells and Rockets before switching back to the SSG. The Stormtrooper rifle (more so with DF2) is also one of my favourites but it is also brilliant in DF1).
The Concussion Rifle in DF1 launches a shock wave of air which hits every single enemy in front of you (regardless of altitude or if they have partially covered) for massive damage. You can clear entire rooms within seconds which is very handy for the later levels. unfortunately the one in DF2 is very rubbish as it fires a single shot of air straight forwards.
Not far into the level. I think I know the enemy you're talking about. It looks scary as hell so I avoided it.
Quake has better gameplay. Dark Forces is no doubt limited by the year it came out. 2.5D is great fun but proper mouse look and faster paced makes Quake funner to play. I did try a mod for Dark Forces that makes it play like Quake albeit with the 2.5D graphics and it was massive improvement. It was however not finished so I got to level 9 and it kept crashing. Not to mention there was no Concussion Rifle :(
That is quite a difference! My computer isn't really a brand anymore, but made of all different parts and pieces. I would have to look up the pricing of each part at this point. Cost doesn't matter though, it's the quality you want (and as you just showed, many things are overpriced). I recently had to get a bigger computer frame to fit the giant graphics card. Probably a bit of overkill for old school games, but this does give me the ability to touch more modern stuff if I wish to do so.
Funny, the Super Shotgun is probably my least favorite weapon. It reminds me of Doom II's SS, which I also disliked due to its power and slowness. I was never a fan of the BFG either though. Sometimes I feel they give guns that just make the game too easy (I know with ammo being hard to find it tries to balance itself out, but it still seems like I gather a lot of ammo for the strongest weapons). Usually I never even fire the most powerful weapon in a game, Quake perhaps being an exception due to the Lightning Gun not feeling totally overpowered like the BFG.
The Concussion Rifle reminds me of Doom 3's BFG. Massive damage no matter where the enemy is. Doesn't that get rid of some of the challenge?
Not sure if you have met it yet. There are quite a few new creatures in this level, all of them are great additions. The Haunted Cathedral is a very good level if you are looking for variety in enemies or a greater amount of non-linearity (at least for Thief Gold). Based on the fact that you aren't too far, I think I know what you are talking about, but I am not fully sure. Where in the level did you see it?
Some time I will need to look into that mod. It would be interesting to find an old game before 1996 that is enjoyable. But I think you are onto something, the pacing felt different. Every room in Quake felt like a room, like a place. Dark Forces just felt like a maze.
I forgot about Doom 2's SSG. I loved that thing too! What's not to love about having all that power with a single press of the trigger? All you need to do is adapt your fighting strategy for the long reload and very short range. Doom 3's expansion pack (which I also have) has a SSG and that too is.. ahem... 'fucking ridiculously powerful'. Further more it also has the same set up as Doom 2 and makes for a nice change to Quake's pump-action.
I too have no idea how much my desktop. I've had this same tower for like a decade and changed bits and pieces over the years. It can play Crysis 3 on medium settings without problem, not that I would want it to because Crysis 3 is rubbish. So it is everything I need. I tried Crysis 3 on my laptop and it played it fine on medium to high settings but under the left-side of the keyboard became red hot, so much so that it was painful to touch for a moment :\
But then I don't care because that's why I still have my desktop. Afterall it's not a gaming laptop but it's nice to have all that power, and memory (it has a 1TB HDD), knowing that I can play my favourites.
Dark Forces's later levels (on Hard) are quite a challenge. Plus so are the Tank Commanders in Quake 2. So using the over-powered guns does not feel cheap. Although I do agree with you that games that can't get the balance right and make you want to avoid using some weapons/items ruins the fun. Unreal and Quake 2 are guilty of this.
I found that monster down a dark corridor and he was at the end. From memory it had antlers.
Eh, I always prefered LMS's SSG to the expansion SSG. The grabber on the other hand intrigued me. However, I was always the chainsaw nut. Yes, it is harder to fight Hell Knights with a chainsaw, but it makes for good fresh meat. LMS's Flame Thrower (pretty much a plasma gun except for fire particles in a close range) is also fun. Even the flashlight is addicting. For some reason I seem to enjoy melee a lot more than ranged.
Crysis 3 is rubbish? It sounded like your style, a mixture of Doom 3 style gameplay with openness. Course, this is all based on hearsay and I have never touched any of those games. I can play Crisis 1 on the highest settings if I remember. Crysis 3 seems like a possibility to based on the specs at http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=3953&game=Crysis%203. Only problem would be that my computer could only support medium and not high end. Even with the computer I am setting up (happy to know the graphics card is more than good for high end), the CPU won't be optimal (hopefully an overclock should fix some things). The good news is that I probably am not touching that game any time soon, but the capabilities to hit certain HD graphics are definately nice.
I have always been a desktop person. My laptop sits in a corner mostly, being rarely used. It is good as a backup device more than anything for gaming. A TB has always looked nice, but I am just lazy when it comes to updating as it would mean reinstalling from scratch. So I have to make due with my 700 GBs (as if it was that big of a problem with old school gaming).
Unreal's only flaw was with that ending. Still, as we have proven, it is quite diffiicult on certain diffiulties (no problem on the hardest difficulty on vanilla Unreal, but Godlike makes it an extreme challenge I will one day have to come back to). Sometimes though I wonder if a final boss should be rediculously powerful. It should be a challenge, something made for only the few to beat. Many would complain about not being able to finish the game though...
Okay, I was right. That is not the thing I was originally talking about however. Still, I also heavily enjoyed that creature. Eh, they aren't antlers. They are eyestalks, it is pretty much part man and part crayfish. Therefore, it is creatively named the Crayman. Enjoy your sighting of that beast, they are quite rare even in the world of Thief. Due to the fact that you are playing Thief Gold, you get even less of them. I will have to explain when the part comes up in a future level.
Nobody seems to have enjoyed that creature as it was another monster. Monsters weren't enjoyed as they didn't belong in a game about thievery. Levels like Down in the Bonehoard were negatively compared to Tomb Raider. You seem to not be viewing it in such a light.
Crysis 1 is Doom 3 with openness. Crysis 3 is however closer to the linear closed corridors of Quake. That fact, along with the touch-and-go stealth was a disappointment. I did enjoy Crysis 1 though.
If you didn't get those gravity boots before the battle with the Queen, she'd be one of the most difficult enemies in all games on the planet. I'd love to fight her without the boots but I have little reason to put in the effort because the boots are there to be used. I remember you tried to but I forgot if you managed to beat her. That is what I'm talking about regarding games made too easy by something and if you avoid using that something to make the game harder it feels like a waste of time and ruins the overall enjoyment of the game.
I still need to convince myself that monsters in Thief can be fun. I think completing the Dark Cathedral will hopefully convince me.
Taking FPS games as an example, there are some extras given to you in some games that would not normally be found. Such as a decent melee weapon. Melee weapons in FPS are normally last resort and when you do need to use them you're probably going to die anyway. But in some games (Jedi Knight 1&2, Dishonoured, Killzone 2&3) the melee weapon is actually tenfold better than most guns. When done right, bringing a knife to a gunfight can be the most fun in the entire world.
I'll keep you in touch about how I fare in the Cathedral.
When you said that, you reminded me of a COD knife...
I gave up on System Shock 2. It seems that even with the 3d, the elements just don't work. I like the Thief parts, hate the SS1 stuff. Every time you want to use an item you have to go into some weird HUD that breaks the flow. The repetition still exists. I found myself liking it for a bit, but it is starting to get dull and thus I am coming back to Thief.
It was not in vain though. It is interesting to see how SS2 pretty much introduced certain things to the Dark Engine that were later used in Thief 2. I was highly familiarized with certain enemy types due to them being very comparable. Still, Thief 2 did it better.
Found out how to do an overhead strike in SS2, showing one more thing they got from Thief. A sword is more fun than a wrench.
Exactly! That is why that FM failed on so many levels. I was talking about "Wanted:Dead or Alive", which has an amazing upper floor that causes you to get vertigo due to random stuttering.
Alas, so far it seems my collection of permanent fan missions is limited to 3, one of which will probably be replaced by an improved Thief 2 version once I start on that game. The others are decent Hammerite missions and thus serve for good replayability (the original game has so few levels that I can mess with the guards and therefore 2 more add to the variety). Most fail either due to lighting, kill objectives, sound errors, long crate unlockings, grammar errors (my greatest pet peeve with stuff trying to blend into a high quality game), too much linearity, long empty spaces, walls disappearing, or terrain mixups. As you can see, there are a variety of things that have plagued these early levels and thus finding a solid level is a real gem.
The latest fan mission was a nightmare (though I did a few, all of which weren't that good and were just quick blips). There are actually two ways to do lighting, one of which is what the actual levels do and another that junky fan mission do. The latter is the one where you turn the gamma up to the max and still cannot see a thing, yet you must search the dark room for a hidden piece of loot.
Favorite game weapon... Out of all games I assume? Unreal's Flak Cannon. I mean, it is a combination between a shotgun and a grenade launcher! Get good with arcs and you have the perfect weapon for any range! I don't think I found any weapon to be so perfect at killing Skaarj.
For me the Jedi Knight 2 lightsaber is my favourite weapon. Of all games I have ever played where you use a sword, JK2's gameplay is by far the best. As a game it may not live up to JK1, but I can't deny it is fun. What makes it slightly better is 1) gunplay is horrible and 2) you don't get the lightsaber until level 8. So for the first 7 levels you have to suffer naff gameplay (in all honesty it's not the worst) but then you are rewarded by getting the lightsaber. The jump between not having it and having it is a great moment.
Thanks for the list, if I ever complete all three games and feel like more FPS stealth action I'll try out the top few FM levels that you deem as good as the main games.
It amazes me that someone would go to all the trouble of making a level but then not be arsed to get their spelling and grammar right.
Having pitch black would be ok if there was a portable light source. One of Doom 3's great gameplay features was that some of the rooms were literally pitch black so you have to use the torch.
Eventually I will need to see if I can endure Dark Forces to see if the series gets better. It is definately better than System Shock, my only real problem was the whole maze thing of each level.
I have yet to mention good fms by name! But by then I should have a decent list. One thing I learned, don't listen to online reviews. They are either entirely generous or I am too harsh. The best level so far was "Circle of Strain". Now I find that level nearly abysmal due to grammar, lighting errors, and visual bugs. I don't know what it means to crab loot.
Exactly! Sometimes the things people don't do are quite stupid. I know it is easy to miss, but it is also easy to notice on a single playthrough. Just a little playing with Dromed has basically taught me how to avoid those problems.
Oh, forgot a big one! Broken objectives that render the mission viturally incompletable.
You do have a portable light source (how do you think I beat that level). Only problem is that it is a fire arrow and requires you to blow up everything in a large radius just to see for a second. All to get a stupid purse!!!
I did actually like that feature of Doom 3. I didn't like the linearity or the cutscenes though. What replay value can Doom 3 hold?
EDIT: Aargh! Another mission highly rated that has numerous spelling mistakes. I had so many people to blackjack though, between the merchands and the hammerits. There was also, surprisingly, one book in the mission that WASN'T broken!
Reading things on the internet you tend to believe that some people don't actually know the differences between 'know no now to too two there their they're you your you're' and so on and so on. Either they are being stupid on purpose or the education in their country has failed them.
This is horrible because these same stupid people will play Thief, make their own levels that can be somewhat fun but then the experience is ruined for you when you are told to 'crab loot'. A sad sad world.
Of course errors in grammar while annoying at least don't make the game unplayable as errors in objectives. But then why do people upload levels that have such huge errors? My only idea is it's a sort of alpha test but it's annoying for you to have to squinge through loads of uncompleted levels to find the one good one, that asks you to 'crab loot' :D
There are a lot of broken books in these missions. It makes you appreciate when a mission exists with working books and good grammar.
The internet is just a place of bad grammar. I think texting makes it even more prominent. It is sad because a lot of the highly rated missions appear to have such spelling errors. Sometimes it is due to someone not knowing English due to living in another country. Sometimes it is just because they don't know English.
Exactly, the level to me just loses its immersiveness when such problems occur. When playing a game, you want grammar to be perfect. I am more harsh on grammar than perhaps minor mistakes in the level.
It is annoying, but you do find some trinkets. I haven't actually named them yet, perhaps I should describe them as a taste on what they are about . If you want no info about them (I tried to keep it general and spoiler free), skip the dotted section. This is the list of 2 good FMs at this point, so I need 8 more before I can even think of making a top 10. I am glad you aren't playing these until you are done with the official games, you never should play FMs without first completing the campaign due to spoilers perhaps popping up.
So far no mission has been totally seamless. One, "Gathering at the Bar" is more of a community map that doesn't strive to emulate the original game, meaning no blackjack and an emphasis on ghosting. You play as another thief, not Garrett, trying to steal some scepters from a bar. It is otherwise pretty good due to numerous hidden easter eggs and the overall challenge of the level. This might also be one of the first uses of a window and a cutscene.
"The Library" is a very good level, but due to it being organized as level 15 (remember, Thieves' Guild didn't exist so many levels used such a format) causes the title to not be displayed. Numerous Hammerites patrol the area as you search for some book with intriguing content.
Speaking of maps, that is an interesting subject. The latest fan mission averted it by just giving you a blank page. Others couldn't get that far though and pressing the map key can crash the game. Some people will give you maps, but they are entirely useless (try reading blurry chalk lines, that is the best description for some of them). "The Library" has a clean map that should be easy to follow (though it shows more of an exterior than the interior of the buildings). "Gathering at the Bar" uses an odd style that gives the impression of being drawn by hand, which means its harder to follow but looks better.
So, that should sum up my FM experience up to this point. Hopefully this is a turning point and they are starting to get better. Probably not based on some other recent submissions. Oh, I forgot to mention, the nightmare with the previous 2 are that they are basically key searches (aka too many keys and backtracking).
Jan 12. EDIT: Went back and eliminated one of the original 4 to make it 2. If any mentions exist in previous comments, ignore this number error. After checking the grammar of the sequel, I realized how badly written the original was (and that the name was actually a misspell). The author basically evaded initial detection due to no actual documents in-game. Another had bad glitches and though I originally debated it due to one of the OMs having glitches, I decided against it.
Trivia: This enemy is referred to as "Quake's Gaurdian" in game, though this is almost certainly a typo.
As small as this error is, it still makes the game look less great. So I see where you're coming from.
Does Thief's story continue into Thief 2's?
Your talking about Dark Forces has made me interested in it again. All in all it is fun. If you are a Star Wars the story aspect makes it better than Doom in many ways. After playing Doom and Doom 2 on the PS3 though I can't say whether either Doom or Dark Forces is the absolute best though. They are both as good as each other. If you play DF I can help :D I am a pro because I can easily beat it on Hard. If you have any problems getting it to run (if you are playing the original game disc on DOS like me), I can help.
Where do you see the name if no kill message exists besides "..." or "player was crushed by a Guardian"?
Thief nearly leads directly into Thief 2. The final cutscene will pretty much connect it. It's actually very interesting how it all works, but that is a discussion for another day. As for how Thief 2 starts, I have no idea. Remember, I don't know storyline for Thief II due to a lack of working cutscenes when I last played. This will be the first time I actually get to see a story.
Alright. You are playing Thief and enduring, so I will try Dark Forces again. Thief is good at certain times, meaning I am quite idle at others and have been wondering what game #2 should be. Have the cd lying around somewhere. Wait, to get it to work, don't you just use DOSBox? I do remember not getting any sound without using the emulator.
A message appears either before or after you kill Guardian.
I have had a few issues, it's all about playing around in the Settings.exe to get the right settings for graphics and sound. Just play around. You'll also want to change the controls. All can be done in the settings.exe.
I decided to play with the new computer, finally getting my hard disk over here. Only problem now is that it doesn't want to work and I am forced to resort to a smaller drive. Though not a big deal, it does mean I either A. Must reinstall all software that requires use of the registry or B. Figure out how to get my old hard disk working.
What .exe files are you talking about? The only one I see after installing seems to be Dark.exe. The audio settings must be done during installation.
Okay, those exist. It was somewhat my mistake even if you gave me the wrong names, I kinda prematurely looked at the Dark folder on the CD and saw only one executable.
Final boss is a nightmare or will be a cakewalk. Very interesting to note.
EDIT: Seems to be very unstable at this point. Sometimes the window will just go to my taskbar and get me out of full screen. Otherwise it seems fine to the main menu, where it varies between functional and non-responsive. Familiar with either of these?
Luckily, they go away with numerous restarts. So I have started mission one and do agree with Mothma that I hope success is on my side, especially when I charge into a level blindly on the hardest difficulty.
EDIT #2: So, I finished level 1. Interesting story so far, especially for its time. I love the blaster rifle. Still can't get over the lack of mouselook, but what did I expect from such an old game. Quick and easy first level that helps me definately get into the game (though I am afraid I will have to jump, that mechanic doesn't seem to work too well).
I currently have them setup to be identical to what I had for Quake before I learned from you about +mlook. I have said in the past that even on Quake, this semi-mouse look where Q and E are pitch up/down is just as good and only really just falls short of real mouse look.
I spent years with A and D turning left (no assigned strafe in comfortable spaces) and ctrl as fire. Although the game was playable I couldn't be bothered with Hard since Normal was a challenge enough with that control layout. I'm telling you in case you are not using the mouse and not using A and D to strafe due to the default key layout. It can be done and once the control layout is sorted to makes Dark Forces play like Quake. It's personal preference but I always have Mouse2 for jump although I get the feeling the majority of people prefer Space.
Exactly what you described. A and D turn. Q and E look up and down. Control crouches (but also causes me to fire). Space allows me to use. Right mouse to jump, left mouse to fire.
Well, I just beat mission 2. Hoards upon hoards of stormtroopers, I am curious how many I just fought. I also found an extra life, which taught me that I have lives. Interesting, especially since they aren't carried over mission to mission. Sounds like the best replacement for the missing save system.
I think I saw a thermal grenade, but couldn't pick it up and it is now really bugging me. Level 2 also taught me that I am apt to get lost and will backtrack through the entire level numerous times before finding an obvious door.
I read the briefing for the next level... Sewers, great! Did I ever tell you how much I hate sewers in sprite based games? How they feel like mazes, which is exactly what this one is? Especially when the goal is to find small buttons I will probably miss due to everything looking like a button. For some reason the next level definately has broken my spirit (especially since I remember it as the level I find nearly impossible to beat).
Level 3 is a giant maze with door puzzels. Areas where you walk through shitty water where giant tentacle monsters can attack you from at any time. I don't think it could be any worse for you. But the next level is good so pull through :D If you get mega stuck in level 3 I know it like the back of my hand. I am your DFpro,
Go to SETUP.Exe to sort the controls out. It is worth it.
W / S
A/D - strafe
Mouse1 - fire
Mouse2 - jump
Space - use
Also you're lives are meant to last to the next level up to 9 lives.
Not sure if you're aware of it but there's a level where you will shat yourself when it starts. I'm sure you know which one when you see it :D
Wait... do monsters respawn? I have been running in circles gunning enemies so if they respawn I definately need to rethink strategy.
Also, this level is not going to be easy. Oh boy. But before I can, another hard drive switch is in order! Hopefully this is the last (also trying to go to Windows 8, which I remember you liked even without touchscreen functions, so I can finally see how it is).
I started thinking to make A/D strafe. Didn't really like it due to not being able to turn. Switching between strafing and turning wouldn't help. I think the cfg is just where I like it actually, besides a lack of mouselook.
So far the max I have seen is 4, wonder what level gives 5 extra lives. I fail at finding secrets though if it is behind a wall or due to a switch.
Will have to check it out when I start playing again!
Nope, still on L3. Haven't played again yet due to W7-W8.
Wish I had known about that software, because that fixes my biggest gripes with W8. Still, I am not one for third party customizer packs. The problem is that they are extra processes that must be running at all times, slowing down your computer. It is the same reason why I disliked the idea of apps (or having to close them by going to the top of the screen and dragging down, only viable option was alt+f4). With my old computer I customized it to be like Windows 7 (or as close as it could get) only to have an extremely slow and unusable computer (though it was nearly that to begin with).
Benefits? Only benefits I saw was the Windows Explorer ribbon interface (open program in cmd is a nice addition), the faster transfer of files, and the nicer task manager. Otherwise it was Windows 7 combined with a cell phone. The nice thing about W7 was multitasking. Apps don't allow for that anymore due to running in full screen. Yes, you can ignore them, but that is one of the core features to switching. What did I miss out on?
This is probably the first piece of newer software I dislike. I am always about upgrading and keeping modern, even if it means completely relearning the product. Windows 8 just doesn't seem to be worth the effort.
I hope Windows 9 fixes some things and doesn't get worse. "Legacy desktop" doesn't have a good ring to it. Apparently the future is about doing one thing at a time. But at least tablet users are happy...
No, I haven't started level 3. What I was talking about was in level 2, the large courtyard near the start/end. There were a lot of stormtroopers and some commandos below, while a bunch more snipe you from above. I had lost a lot of health running in circles hunting enemies, usually those commandos. More of them kept appearing when I thought I had cleared the area, I thought if I kept fighting like in Doom the numbers would thin.
Well, finished setting up my Windows 7. Good news is that everything is now reworking (had to reinstall and transfer over save games)/cfgs due to transferring the data on the storage hard drive). My Thief and Dark Forces are up and running perfectly again. Now let's config this thing properly!
Edit: Nice! No more shooting when crouching. Also I am able to turn with the mouse, though now I miss mouselook even more. Oh well, can't complain due to age. Dark Forces II probably has mouselook so that is a plus.
Seems that it is a lot easier to shoot now with the mouse turning. Those commandos might not be such a threat anymore!
I also realized that "Slow Mode" and "Speed Mode" have nothing to do with frame rate and are instead a walk and run! Furthermore, I found out that pressing escape means I can skip cutscenes instead of having to skip each part with a left click (Talay was a nightmare for replaying that way).
Wait, you are playing Dark Forces too? Is your Thief playthrough on hold?
It is a much better game with these improvements. Hopefully I can figure out the sewer complex. Well, wish me luck, time to find out where that Moff Rebus has hidden himself.
If I am right, Level 4 is where I ragequit last time after barely and aimlessly wandering until I found Rebus in level 3. Maybe run will fix some things, but from what I remember I failed at leaving the starting area due to it being a large chasm.
Now for a bunch of very weird questions on lives to learn how the game works. Say I am on level 2 and find that extra life, beating the level with 4. As you said, I will start the next level with 4. But say I played that level again. If I quit before beating the level would it change the data, or would beating the level not have any change either due to it only saving your best stats? Could I eventually get to the final boss level with 9 lives if I replayed the key levels with lives and got those extra lives? Can you start a level with less than 3 lives?
EDIT: Extremely limited ammo, large maze with buttons, respawning enemies that are tiny and hard to hit, extremely dark rooms that are hard to navigate in, sewer monsters... Yeah, this level is a nightmare! I pressed some buttons, don't know what they did. I also keep finding myself in the same areas.
Sewers... why did they have to make it sewers....
I am going out on a limb here, but area 4 seems virtually useless. Sadly, I failed at the mission. Those thermal detonators are difficult to use (had 28 but couldn't hit anything with them)! I ended up making it past an area with Grans throwing grenades, dying when I hit the droids in the next room after a difficult leap. I assume I was making progress based on the fact that I never saw grenade throwing enemies up to that point.
EDITEDIT: Redid the mission and beat it on my last life. Those little droids are almost impossible to hit and take so much of my life. I found out that they do indeed give you 3 lives. But I also found out that they do not give you ammo, meaning I am starting level 4 with no ammo besides those infernal thermal detonators which I usually end up injuring myself with. Am I doomed? Not sure if they can reach across chasms of doom. Sprinting is what got me in this situation (respawning enemies really breaks the idea of ever controlling an area).
I also learned something after completing the mission. Pressing F5 means a headlamp appears, those mysterious packs I kept seeing are apparently batteries for it. So all this time I could have used a light...
By the way, what is a headwave? Does Katarn have psonic force powers I didn't know about either? Maybe that was what the power packs the robots gave me were for. So maybe I can use headwave to drag stormtroopers to their death?
Also not really sure how infared will help me at this point. Now I am worried I will fight invisible enemies. Oh boy, respawning invisible tiny robots of death in the second sewer level!
Re-read the past dozen messages and I’m sure you’ll see I mentioned my replay of Dark Forces. Besides I am back at my land locked home now with my laptop and Thief is at my costal home on my desktop. I will still play Thief. Also Dark Forces will not take me long to complete. It is nice to be ahead of you for once.
The amount of lives you start a level with is saved to that level. So if you end Level 2 with five lives, you will start level 3 with five every time until you replay level 2 and finish with a different number of lives. So if you finish level 11 with eight lives but you get stuck on level 12, causing you to ‘ragequit’ and come back later, you will always have eight lives at the start of level 12, even when you complete the level.
If you lose all of your lives, you will lose all your progress on the current level and return to the start of that level with three lives. I don’t know exactly what would happen if you finished a level with one or two lives but I do strongly believe the next level would begin with three lives.
Hope this answers your questions.
Congratulations! I knew Level 3 was made up of everything you hated from an FPS but there is nothing so bad in that way at all in the game from now on. Of course there are puzzles but they keep it fun and interesting instead of furious and ‘AAAAAAARHHHGG’. And of course you haven’t even come to close to the most difficult levels, but they are hard in a good way, a proper challenge.
There’s no harm in telling you now (spoilers) but the severe lack of Imperial troopers in level 3 makes conserving your Stormtrooper rifle ammo extremely difficult. I remember starting level 4 with no rifle ammo and like 2 thermal detonators when I was young.
When you find the route off the landing zone in Level 4, you will have to make sure to make full use of your Thermal Detonators in your first enemy encounter. Then you can get rifle ammo and will have to play it smart to accumulate your ammo throughout the level. It’s all about short range combat, killing your enemies in 2 and 3 shot bursts. The games changed for you again :D
Toggle headwave on/off as you move around and you’ll see it is just the gun bobbing up and down. I always have it on because it looks odd when headwave is off and you are walking around with the gun sprite static.
No invisible enemies, just some dark areas for which infrared is very useful. Time for a game-mechanic hint from your friend Radec because this may not be the kind of thing you find out for yourself over the game. Enemies (at least human enemies) struggle to see and shoot you when you are in the shadows. It’s no stealth mechanic by any means but it does give you a slight advantage. So use your infrared instead of your flashlight to keep this advantage in the dark.
I still don't see where you mentioned it, XD. Yeah, Dark Forces is nearly impossible for me so I will be a while.
So pretty much if I am ending a level with less lives than I had previously, it is better to quit than finish. Okay. Wait a minute, what do you mean Level 2 with 5? You mean there is an area in level 1 with a life too? Well, I seem to be able to bang through level 1 easily so perhaps I should replay and see if I can find it. Maybe it has something to do with running, which means I can actually make use of that key. I do remember seeing some ledges I couldn't get to before...
Well, I finished level 3 with 0 lives and am starting level 4 with 3.
Will those tiny robots be appearing again? I think I should be fine as long as those things aren't around. I am excited to see proper challenges instead of running blindly and getting injured by tiny robots blocking my way due to trying to find the way forward.
If you could do it with 2 thermal detonators than it should be easier with 20 or so. Only problem is that I don't know how to use those stupid detonators. XD, sounds like a change for the better if I can build up my ammo supply.
Ugh, so headwave is just the bobbing of the gun? Who named these things?!?
Something I noticed was that only the sewer monsters could see me in the large grate room. None of the droids actually fired on me in that room, even though I saw outlines everywhere. Infared in dark. So flashlight is pretty much useless as long as you have infared?
EDIT: It was that simple? After trying to get to that ledge and finding nothing of interest, I ended up looking for other ledges I could run and jump to (making use of my new found ability). I found out I could leap to the other side, followed it around into a cave where I took advantage of the headlight and found a locked door. Knowing full well how I didn't find any switches that I didn't know what they did (using sound and observation I found a hatch opens in the area above when pushing a previously unseen switch beside a stormtrooper. Now that I know what buttons look like I suddenly am able to play a lot better.) I figured they pulled the Doom trick of making a hidden switch on one of the nearby walls. Well, I was 100% correct and everything else was pretty much straightforward. Hooray for old school intuition!
Still missed some secrets apparently, only had 71% (thank goodness for playing with the function keys). Unless they had other hidden walls I have no idea where the others are. Perhaps by those computer terminals, it sounds like the kind of thing that they would do (note to self, replay and test every computer terminal). Your example turned out to have more use than you let on! Now I get how the game works, every level they distribute the same powerups in secret areas (the weapon enhancer (which I found in level 2), the extra life (which I found in level 2 and told me that they probably wouldn't have distributed a second life in the same level, meaning your hint showed it was on level 1), and the reviver (which I had previously found in level 1 and therefore took full advantage of it in this playthrough). So now I know the location of all 3 in level 1, 2 in level 2, and none by level 3. Is it weird how much information I just figured out by basing it on old school logic and your hint? Go me.
Level 2 now starts me with 400 ammo and 4 lives. I wonder if that would make level 3 a bit better, as I only had 100 ammo to work with at the start (which as you showed didn't help when stormtroopers didn't exist).
I also saw how the infared worked in the dark area where the extra life was being guarded. The droids had a lot of trouble finding out where I was, they didn't even really fire at me. That is a complete difference from instantaneous action. Also, is it just me, or does it seem that enemies do not respawn in the first level? Does that only start happening on level 2 (the entry area in level 3 just kept respawning with probots, showing that that mechanic is highly existant by that evil level)?
Also, I was so excited before due to focusing on the whole extra life thing, but 12 levels at least? Oh boy, this is going to be one rocky ride. But it doesn't take long? I can see that too, even the sewer level wasn't that long once you know how to navigate it (I actually feel confident I know where everything is, just don't know how those switches work).
So the lesson is that your one message contained a plethora of hints that should help in continuing this game. Don't know if you meant for them or not.
EDITEDIT: Did level 2 again and now have 500 ammo and 5 lives for level 3. The last time I did level 2 I ended up running out of ammo, so this was a great improvement. Only found 33% of the secrets though, I saw a ledge but have no idea how to get there. Eh, didn't really matter as I found the extra life.
I also replayed level three. Probably missed all the secrets besides 1 (forgot to check). But I did beat the level without losing a life, meaning I am starting level 4 now with 5 lives instead of 3. I also still have 177 rounds (surprising, as this was the first time I actually tried gunning down all the swamp creatures and droids) and 12 thermal detonators (which I finally have figured out how to use somewhat efficiently). That means that the starting area of level 4 shouldn't be as rough.
I beat level 4 as well. Those turrents were a nightmare and wasted all of my lives. 3-4 shots by one of those things and I am dead. It doesn't help that they are hard to aim at! Entering the facility with 6 lives. I got out of there with 14 health and no lives. Finding out that puzzle for the door ended up being a bigger challenge than it had to be, it was just by accident that I noticed the keycard had symbols on it. Also, found an autogun and it seems my ammo problem is not as bad as it was (500 for the main gun, 200 or so for the autogun, no idea how many thermal detonators). Still, now that I lost all those extra lives I found it seems I will have to be more careful in the mining facility.
Yes, I don’t think flash light has much use. Just remember to conserve your battery life. There are plenty of batteries in the levels but don’t go crazy. I Don’t know much about the respawning mechanics, I guess non were scripted for level 1 to make it an easy tutorial.
Go you. Look at you, putting more thought into this than me, redoing levels to increase your accumulated lives. Although when I first played I did also seek out all the extra lives. Guess I don’t need to anymore :\
Too bad I can’t give mine to you :D It’s amazing what I am capable of though when it comes to helping in other ways. Either that or you have a gift for finding the most in anything and somehow getting it right.
You’re right about the game feeling short. 14 (oops, should have stuck to 12) levels seems like a lot when you think 14 levels on Thief can take 30 hours. But even so every level feels the right length, not too short/long. In comparison Unreal can feel a little drawn out. The turrets are one of the more difficult enemies but there is a trick to killing them without taking any damage, not that I’ll tell you >:D The turrets and the Ke… no wait, shouldn’t tell you anymore, spoilers. You’ll see for yourself very soon.
Are you not going to replay level 4 to finish with 6 lives?? It makes your hard work so far go to dust don’t it?
Conserve battery. I am assuming by that you mean there is going to be some extremely dark levels coming up. Hopefully I have been conserving, I hadn't really paid attention.
You are sad that you don't need to look out for more lives? Doesn't that mean you got skill and its better? Course, that means little challenge.
I apparently got really lucky and was in the zone this morning. I normally don't notice things like that, but maybe I was just that desperate for lives that seeing anything on it made me jump at the oppurtunity.
Only 14? Surprising, especially when Doom was punching out 27 (3 episodes with 9 levels). Unreal is extremely long at times, but definately more fun. This game is better than Elder Scrolls or System Shock, but still pales in comparison to Thief or even Unreal. Maybe Dark Forces II will change things, or maybe the later levels will pick up. It has been a fun beginning, more addicting than most old school games before 1996.
XD, trying to stop yourself on the spoilers. Ke. Could that be the first two letters of an upcoming gun? For some reason I keep thinking Kevlar, but that is an armor and not a weapon.
Your Ke honestly confuses me. Thinking mechanics, I was sure it might be to stand directly under it. Probably not a good idea, especially when there are mutliple.
True, just don't know if I can do any better with those turrents. Even the Autogun doesn't do much against them. It would be so easy if I had mouselook (I faced harder turrents in System Shock II). Well, I guess I can try again.
EDIT: Can't make it too far without being brought to 3 lives due to those turrets, at which point it is useless to continue due to the next mission giving you 3 lives.
You do have A and D as strafe don't you? <--- that was a hint -_- The turrets are quite common later in the game so it's worth finding your strategy to dealing with them sooner rather than later.
I guess it does remove part of the fun when you no longer need to search the entire levels for those power-ups (namely revive and extralife) to help you on your way. For me a blaster rifle is enough.
I just did level 7 and started it with 6 lives and died 3 times in 3 minutes. You will find out why in level 6. Nothing to do with Ke though. I almost thought about restarting but decided against it. Now I am back down to 3 lives. Keep your head on with level 6. If level 3 (sewers) is the most annoying level, level 6 is the second most. It's not a spoiler/hint, it's just a heads up.
I guess that Zone thing wasn’t permanent. There are no really dark levels. I meant to conserve batteries just so you know you always have the googles whenever you might need them.
Oh... so strafe actually is important? Yeah, I kinda kept turn as A and D due to it being too slow to turn with the mouse. Now I wonder how I am going to learn to strafe as well.
Still, the game is highly fun even when you know what you need to do. The roles are reversed with Thief and I can pretty much beat each level by sprinting through it on expert (I actually did that recently to have a save on each level).
Ow, level 6 sounds painful. Hopefully I can get there, the mines might give me a run for my money if there are turrets.
That's good, so there is nothing like what Unreal did. You are right, I seem to have lost my zoning. The past few levels seemed perfectly clear. Now these turrets pop up.
No turrets in level 5 until the very end and non at all in 6 surprisingly. That'll give you a breather. Also you will need to strafe. Thankfully you can change the mouse sensitivity in the pause menu when in-game. Perhaps yours is too low. How can you play an FPS without strafing? What is this black magic?
'mines might give me a run for my money' You just gave yourself a clue :D You're back in the zone.
It is different with you being the Thief expert and me being the Dark Forces one. Do you Ke wish you could Ke tell me more about Thief's story Ke and monsters Ke? Ke?
Dark Forces II is a whole different game, being in the same year as Quake II. It will always be my #1 favourite game of all time as it was the first game I played as a little kid. So many memories and redoing the beginning of level 1 because the rest of it was too hard or too difficult, on Easy. You will like it I am sure. First though you need to defeat Rom Mohc, that big bald guy.
Well, I got 4 lives now. Those turrets still get me in the doorways, such as the one by the Autogun. The second one was due to being surprised by the two near the front gate. Still turrets are the bane of this game.
Mine is at the maximum. I solved it by pressing alt and using the turn keys. Not ideal, but better than losing the turn keys.
I am? XD, I didn't even know. So I am going to have to run a lot. Now the only question is why.
You just like using that Ke. I could do stuff like that with Thief. I just keep quiet.
It's Kevin, isn't it? I am fighting some super powerful boss named Kevin. Oh boy. Bald people, people named Kevin...
I don't think it was Dark Forces II that I ragequit on as a child. Maybe it was Outcast. I remember being on some level that reminded me a lot of level 4's start actually. Maybe I couldn't find the side corridor there either. Wherever it was, I never saw an enemy showing just how close to the start I failed.
EDIT: I reread your post. Now I think it must be some creature, some boss based on the fact that you used the. You wouldn't use the with a name and you used it to describe an enemy/boss.
Odd. Thought I knew Star Wars, but can't think of a creature beginning with Ke. Unless maybe it has something to do with Kessel! That's it! I am fighting some Kessel Rock Creature.
Now that I think about it, it is a lot more obvious! I am in a mine, what is the most famous mine in Star Wars? Well, Kessel Rock Man which I will now name Kevin, here I come.
You solved it, Ke is Kevin the maintenance guy who transforms into a.... Giant Rock!
You'll probably know Ke when you see it because it is one of the highlights of the game (in my opinion). I don't think you do anything like it in any other game. It's not really a boss because it is only difficult under certain circumstances... Gah, already telling you too much and you'll still quite a way from it.
The key cards alluded me on my first couple of plays. I spent ages punching the symbols trying to find the correct combination to open the doors.
You might be talking about level 3 of Outcast. The problem with it is the shooting gameplay is bad (as I've said) so it's understandable that you don't stick with it. Overall though it is a fun game once you get the Lightsaber.
That would be an awesome boss! How do you think the maintenance crew fixes the exterior of the Star Destroyers? Instead of getting suits like every other Sci-Fi, these guys turn into non-breathing rocks! Only problem would be, how would they carry anything without arms?
Ke is that unique huh? Certain circumstances. Rock. Aha! You look away from it or it turns you to stone like Medusa! The evil gazing rock of Kessel who works part time as a maintenance guy!
It took a bit to figure it out. I ended up just mashing buttons when nothing worked. Apparently, that helped. So the lesson is, when you are stuck in a game, press every key until you find something useful.
Level 3? No way did I make it that far. Unless levels 1 and 2 of Outcast don't have you shooting at an enemy and take less than a few seconds. From the time I started, I think I went forward and made it to some room that was a chasm of death. No way forward, I was stuck there until I eventually quit. That was the entire experience of whatever game it was that I played. It was Star Wars and had to be some title from the early 2000s or late 90s as I don't remember it being sprite based (though it probably was too short to remember). I could have sworn it said Jedi something, meaning it was either Jedi Academy or Jedi Outcast. I know it was an FPS title. That limits it quite a bit.
Also... I got all 6 lives for Level 5 now. Thanks for that hint against the turrents, it is a life saver (literally). I probably should learn to strafe more frequently now that I know how to do it properly.
Well done on completing level 4. I hope you enjoy blowing things up in level 5.
I think you might have been on level 1 of Outcast. That has a giant chasm. I think I will be Ke'ing tonight. I won't tell you what levels I am on so as not to spoil it for you :D You're getting close though.
Jedi Outcast will be interesting to replay again then. I conquered the lesser chasm of doom in Dark Forces, so it will be great to defeat my second greatest nemesis in all gaming after 1996. My first is the entire genre of flight sims.
Not Ke! Anything but the evil Ke! Good job on not spoiling anything this time around.
Close to Ke. That doesn't sound good.
Even though you say Ke, I don't think in that mindset right now. Honestly I imagine a Rancor. That sounds like the type of thing this game would throw at you. Wait, don't tell me, a Kessel Rancor (probably makes no sense, but the best guess I got so far). Would this Kessel Rancor just happen to be made of rock :p?
I am also curious what the secret message is (or even if one exists). The first four levels spell out the word STAR if you look at the first letter. I would have thought Star Wars, but that doesn't explain a G.
EDIT: No turrets until the end?!? Why, why does it always have to be a turret that gets me.
EDITEDIT: Turns out there was one quite a bit before the end that bit me. Funny, the Dark Trooper was the easiest thing in the level. I ended up with 2 lives due to turrets, that mass area near the end, failing to drop on that platform that I originally thought was a masher right before the true mashers, and getting crushed by a door (even though for some reason it happened when I wasn't near it, suddenly I just got stuck when I was in the middle of a hallway).
Level 6 upcoming I guess, but first some more lives due to how hard you made it sound. Sounds like I am looking for a keycard on an officer, which proves to be a problem when I don't know which officer. The game might also pull a "this keycard leads to another cell block, you are looking for N" deal. How does stealth work when I need to kill any officer I see? For some reason I don't think this is going to be like Thief...
Boba Fett. For some reason you spelled his name wrong, it doesn't start with Ke. Unless that isn't Boba Fett, but some other Mandalorian. Did I miss something in the plot?
That is Boba Fett. Nothing to do with Ke. Because you just destroyed the mining facility that gets the ore for the Dark Trooper Project, Rom Mohc is pretty pissed off at you so he has hired the skills of Boba Fett to kill you. How will you know to fight him when he has already killed you? :O
A Rancor shows up in Mysteries of the Sith, so I guess you almost got it right, only it was the wrong game.
Ke ke ke, Ke! Ke Ke - You know I've probably built too much hype around this, so much so you're going to left bitterly disappointed when you actually see it :(
So you found the Dark Trooper to be easy? Wait until you meet the next one, it is deadly.
Based on the hype, it probably is just some weird Dark Trooper variant. Some experimental project or something.
Next one? So there is more than one? I guess the large amount of health with a deadly enemy won't help...
I just replayed level 5 and got 5 lives. Would have had six if it wasn't for that turrent guarding the thermal detonators. I didn't even realize it was there until it started gunning me while I stood right below it.
Aww, I think 5 is enough. Because I feel I need some good luck, I am going to give you a hint. There are 2 extra lives in Level 8. I need luck because I am about to play arguably one of the 3 hardest levels in the game. The three most difficult levels are fun though but challenging. The sewer level is easy when you know what you're doing.
You get to learn everything about the Dark Trooper project as you play through the game.
XD, giving hints gives you luck? Where did you get that presumption?
Actually, I already agree. The sewer level was extremely easy in hindsight. You just don't run through it like a maniac. It is also wise to have a large number of ammo beforehand.
2 extra lives. Well I thank you and will definately waste time hunting them out. I seem to need them tremendously, especially on my first playthrough.
Okay. So far I understand that they use some type of metal to build a powerful armor which is probably to replace stormtroopers. Not really sure what more there is to the whole project or how we spend 5 games on it. The empire is rather persistant at it, almost as bad as Death Stars. At least it was different people who blew up the Death Stars though.
Semi-zone with my last comment? Perhaps the thing I am fighting is an experimental project but is not a Dark Trooper. Experimental rock creature? Well, how many maintenance guys do you see turning into rock men...
So really the series takes place after episode 6, except for this one? Interesting.
Jedi Academy is rubbish? Surprising after such a good series it ended on a terrible note. Then again Thief might be doing the same (Thief 4 looks even worse after watching a trailer, it reminds me of COD more than Thief).
So Jedi Knight has Kyle become a knight? For some reason that bugs me. I don't know how a character that is like Han Solo could ever become a Jedi. Plus, if it is like Psonic in SS2 then it will be an added headache.
Kyle's turn to the Jedi works really well. Of course you'll see how you like it when you play. But they do make it work. Having force powers in an FPS is very interesting. Jedi Knight is by far the best game in the series I think.
I just confronted Ke and I knew... but even so... my god... I think I forgot a little about.... wow....
It's dead now, they... I don't want to say anything more until you get to it. But oh boy, you'll get your challenge.
With Dark Forces the easier difficulty levels have less enemies. So yes it is a breeze. The extra enemies (especially the stronger enemies) in Hard towards the end of the game really give it that fun challenge. You've met a Dark Trooper and although one of the weaker ones is pretty easy, the tougher ones are strong, fast and fun to fight. Hard gives you more of them to fight which makes it more fun.
No kidding, especially since the evil control scheme will work against me. I still am unable to play this game like I would play any other FPS, meaning aiming up and down is an extremely difficult challenge.
Less enemies? That might explain why it feels like hoards are constantly guarding these places. For some reason it feels proper, as they are supposed to be heavily guarded. The only thing about the Dark Trooper is that it is fast. I think I end up injuring myself more with thermal detonators than anything though, I have never been touched by one yet. I should probably use something less explosive if I am expecting a larger number.
Well, I guess on to level 6. Based on your earlier mentioning, this might be my downfall.
EDIT: Already I lost a lot of lives due to those blasted mines, yet even trying to complete the level seems to be an impossiblity. I wandered around trying to blow up any wall I thought could be taken down (all the cells especially) and kept shooting in that hole on the second level (the one I need to find my friend on). Tried blowing up vents, looking for hidden switches, and racing down the elevator to the forcefield on level 4 after hitting the switch on level 3. I'm missing something, yet I feel I have exhausted all logical ideas.
Also, what happened to stealth? There has been no place in this level where stealth has even appeared to be an option!
By the way, this level is more frustrating in my opinion than level 3. At least level 3 you knew you had to find switches. At least in level 3 you
were never totally lost on what to do. At least in level 3 you didn't have walls that blow up, meaning that you might be hunting for that one wall that blows up to reveal a switch behind it.
This stupid main elevator also misses 2 floors.
EDITEDIT: Found the wall. Seems when I threw a grenade at it before it somehow didn't break. No idea why or how. But that glitch just sent me on a wild goose chase when the answer was obvious.
EDITEDITEDIT: Arrrgh!!!!! It was just a secret with an extra life! So ignore everything I just said, still on a wild goose chase.
One of the walls could be destroyed on level 1 and it looked like it had a switch. Only problem is that it is not pressable!
Also, my batteries just went dead. On a replay I guess I will know where a bunch of stuff can be found. I just don't know how to get forward.
EDITEDITEDITEDIT: Okay. I figured out when the force field is blinking, you cannot pass. When it is solid, it is down. I accidentially got through the forcefield and examined how I managed to do so. So I guess the AI wasn't cheating when they kept shooting me through the forcefield, they just did it in the split second that it went down.
EDITx5: Yeah, this is becoming annoying. Got the red key, open door, find out it is the same location I blew up with the switch that does
n't work. I hear a noise, but I can't even leave the room before it switches back. (never mind, found it is just a door not closing properly).
So, I think the game is broken. No message about needing a key. No sound, no light change, no changes to the map. Why have a switch behind a door if the switch doesn't even function?
I think I am going to stop for now and find out if the game is broken or not from you. I have spent enough time wandering around with no direction and with 0 lives I think a restart would be in order anyway.
Wasting time on Thief, I managed to get the self-appointed title of crazy wall jumper after successfully getting to this area of the training level. It is to the left of the red door at the end. Yeah, I learned more than the Keepers were trying to teach me about running and jumping :P. Also, my health shields exist in-game and apparently don't save over with the actual image.
I knew this would happen. Edit x5? Each one more desperate than the last? Oh dear.
I will give you a clue.
To reach Madine's cell (the red area) you need to pass through the sewers, literally one rooms worth (nothing like level 3). To get to the sewers you need to go through the blue key door near the first elevator (which floor though? :D). When you get into that door you’ll be the elevator shafts (you might realise that although it’s a pain the ass to get from one elevator to the other, they are actually right next to each other. Errhg... ahh... no, I will leave at that. I think that’s a fucking massive clue and only if you start crying will I give you more.
I’m only giving you this clue because I know how annoying this level is when you have no idea where to go. Oh yes, you also need the blue key. You might have guessed that.
I have no idea what that image is... Health shields? There's no shields in Thief.
Okay, one room of sewers to finish up an annoying level.
Blue key? There's a blue key now? Ugh... Still don't get the purpose of the red key due to it being possible to blowing down the wall and now there is another key that I am missing entirely?
Massive clue from elevators next to each other. My zone must be off. Elevators adjacent. So I am using one side of the elevators, travelling along the sewers, and coming out the other side. I kinda realized they were next to each other, just didn't know they had a point.
The first elevator has a blue key door too? I hope you aren't confusing red with blue. The door on the top floor? If so I made it into the room, that is the area with the mysterious switch that doesn't work that made me think the level was broken in the first place. No shafts, just the top vent which you can blow up, the red door, and that door with the switch that doesn't work if I shoot or click it. Running around the level, it didn't do anything noticably different.
The level is extremely stressful due to that reason. Normally I have a good amount of patience, but I think the numerous times this has happened has drained it. Especially when I can't save. That definately causes greater frustration as you have to search every corner on one go, I can't quit and come back to it later without clearing out the entire level again.
The health shields on the gui that represent how much you can take before you die. Maybe you didn't recognize that they were tiny shields.
The image represents how the perfect use of jumping and climbing can get you into odd areas of Thief. Some are a bit easier, though some like this can be a bit difficult to do (though I did it four/five times just to see if I could do it again, I think it gets easier when you know where and how to do it). That red roof is the roof beside the red door at the end of the training area. I am on the left side in an area that the developers apparently didn't want you to get to. The interesting thing is that stone brush floating in the air, it has no real purpose in the level as it only appears when facing this direction and therefore the player normally can never see it. It is a lot wider than it looks, a sky brush is obscuring most of it in the shot I took.
So, I will go through the level again later and hunt for that blue key. If it was a powerful enemy such as a Dark Trooper, this part wouldn't be so annoying, but due to it being fully the demand for trying to figure out where to go next, it gets tedious. A lack of a save feature makes this even worse than that part in Thief.
EDIT: Found out something very interesting. I was right, by blue you mean red. I was also right about the level being broken, either that or the area closes later for some reason. Now the elevator shaft is open, when before it was closed and unable to be opened. Strange...
EDITEDIT: Or something indeed. All I had to do was push the elevator button so it wasn't on the same floor. Ugh, have I said that this level is tedious and frustrating?
Having to position the elevator(s) on certain floors to be able to pass through the elevator shaft was where I stopped my clue. Once you get through the shaft and through the sewers, it's plain sailing to the end my boy.
Just finished the mission, it's okay, at least I figured it out between the clue and accidentially hitting the elevator BEFORE going down to the secret area. You were wrong, you don't need the red key as that secret wall exists (I pretty much found any damagable walls I could as shown in my series of attempts to beat the frustrating mission). It just is pretty much on your way to the place as you have to align the second elevator.
Sadly, I only have 5 lives at the end. Funny thing is that I was perfect on the area I previously explored, having memorized every nook and cranny due to having to traverse it so many times. Worst thing was those mines, but I luckily was able to salvage medkits in the prison. Lost one to a turrent (thought you said none existed!) and then was weakened by that masher when I didn't realize it was coming down before it was too late. Probably will replay it, just need a break from that frustrating mission for a little bit.
So I guess I kinda understand what I need to do to beat the rest of the game at this point. Course I am only on level 7 and there are 14, so that means it must take a bit to find each place. Why does kingpin make me think Jabba the Hutt? Wouldn't surprise me at this point I guess, they did bring in Boba Fett.
So my guesses for the future is that the smuggler doesn't go to the place you want him to go to, but to Jabba's. After killing hundreds of those "things" (no idea what the name of the species for Klaatu, Barada, and Nikto are; Gamorreans might also exist but due to the fact that they are melee only they would need backup) you find Ke, Jabba's latest pet, who just happens to have been stolen from an Imperial testing facility. No idea how Kyle finds either place, but that is definately a start. Maybe Ke is part cyborg and comes from the robot facility?
For some reason I also get the feeling that I will eventually be fighting an AT-ST. The explosives have to be useful against something big and powerful.
My zone is probably ice cold, but that is what happens when it gets weakened by such a tedious level.
Also, there is probably no secret message. GDR doesn't create many words.
Level 8 is actually easy and hard. Easy in that it's straight forward from start to end but hard because it's the first level to have Bounty Hunters which are much more difficult to defeat than Imperial Forces.
I also knew about the breakable wall behind the blue door but even I avoid that coz' it's too much cheating.
Really? XD, wonder what I got right and what I got wrong.
But this is level 7... Bounty Hunters? Uh oh.
Breakable wall cheating? Still, I actually ended up doing the same thing and still went for the keycard.
Just beat level 6 with all 7 lives. It was a lot easier to run past that turret than bother fighting it at that odd angle. I don't even think it fired at me.
By the way, do I get cheated on lives after 9? If I find both in level 8 I might have the maximum.
EDIT: Started Level 7 and found a Gamorrean. Seems to be as easy as I assumed, except for the larger amount of health. Eh, after a level 1 Dark Trooper these things are almost pushovers.
So Grans are Bounty Hunters? Definately more accurate, though I believe those mines are the biggest nightmares on a first playthrough. Ended up with one life but beat the level. So apparently I just made it to the research facility on the ice planet, meaning we are going to spend the next 5 levels hunting for the Arc Hammer.
EDITEDIT: Six lives...
EDITEDITEDIT: Got my seven lives and am ready for the ice planet. Needing a mask doesn't sound too positive...
EDITX4: Beat level 8. I enjoyed the snow level a lot more than the previous few, it sparked my interest once more. I also know where both extra lives are, though I only was able to get one. That second seems quite difficult, you need to time a crouch and running jump correctly. Also, I hope this makes sense, but I actually found the second type of Dark Trooper to be the easier of the two. The first rushes at you, making you injure yourself a lot. This one times its plasma attacks and the rockets are slow, meaning you can survive rather well if you keep your distance.
Sadly, only had 3 lives at the end. Conveyor belts combined with turrents equals slower player and near instant death. Acid and crushing platforms didn't help.
Probably close to Ke. No idea why it would be on Nar Shadda though, so perhaps not. Or maybe it is a pet, just not Jabba's.
EDITX5: I found out that Dosbox can go higher than a sensitivity of 200. So apparently I can set it up to strafe. Course, my forward keys must have got unbinded on a test and so I ended up falling to my death at the beginning. Yet falling revealed something to me, there was a ledge right at the start! Checking it out, I found another life. So there are three in level 8?!? Ke is obviously close if they give these away like popcorn...
EDITX6: Wow, this is a lot of edits. Finished level 8 with all 9 lives (no idea how to get the third or if it would even be rewarding). Dark Trooper type 2 is a lot easier, especially when you can strafe. Apparently energy based weaponry doesn't work on the type one, wasted about 100-200 rounds on it.
It's not cheating, it's just cheap. It like removes half of the level I think. 9 Lives is the max you can have at any one time. You feel invincible with 9 Live I tell ya'.
You probably found out already but what the Gamorreans lack in speed and range they make up for 10 fold with sheer power. You don't want to get cut up by their massive War Axe. Despite this the Gamorreans are the weakest of the Bounty Hunters. The Grans literally have dead eye with their tossing as I'm sure you've seen. Not sure if you've played Nar Shadda yet but you will see the Trandoshans and witness the unrivalled power of the Concussion Rifle.
Level 8 is one of the better ones in the game. Did you manage to get the ice boots before entering the facility? That's one of the 'fuck you' parts as it's easy to miss them until you exit the facility.
The level 8 encounter with the Dark Trooper Phase II is in an open space with plenty of space to move and hide. The Arc Hammer is full of enclosed corridors so don't get too cocky :) Here’s a pro tip just for you my friend. Go back to level 8 and get that extra life off the ledge right at the start and open your map. Funnies to be had ^_^
Congrats on getting 9 lives. You’re now ready for the next two levels, Nar Shadda and... well let’s just say these two are among the most difficult. Although for all I know you’ve already...
I’ve gone back to Thief after a long break and have reached the Cathedral. One thing for sure, I am now getting use to the monsters in Thief, and the combat, making the idea of more super natural levels sound fun instead of not fun. Getting to grips with the combat is not easy in a game where most the time you are not using it. This is a whole new game for me now. You’ve almost caught up to me on DF though since I haven’t had my laptop on all weekend. I’ll be doing the next level tonight when I get home.
Nope, I would have edited to say I finished level 9. Only do 1 level or so a day, the game is still tedious enough that I don't like to spend too much time on it. I really hope DF2 has a save feature (and mouselook). I can tolerate the game to an extent, especially level 8, but it is easy for me to get frustrated due to its older mechanics.
Eh, not really. As I said you basically have to go that way anyway to align the elevator. So you are missing the hallway of pain.
9 lives make you feel invincible? Especially if an extra live exists in the level! Then you basically have a freebie to mess up with.
I have yet to actually be touched by a Gamorrean. Grans are definately a bit more painful, they were one of the enemies that made me have to backtrack in the hopes to pick them off from a distance.
Trandoshans? They probably will be deadly...
I made it to the Concussion Rifle?!? Sweet, so I can finally see the awesome weapon you keep talking about! I think it is the only weapon I don't have yet.
Level 8 was highly enjoable. I did get the ice boots, ended up finding them while trying to find the way forward. Glad I didn't miss them!
Dark Trooper Phase II in an enclosed space... oh god. The Arc Hammer sounds painful.
I checked the map... why a bunny? Random :P.
Really? Oh boy, so a challenge to be had. Ke most likely is in this level or the next...
You reached the Cathedral! Congrats! So have you found the Serpentile Torc yet?
Thief to me is like swimming in water. I know the controls so well due to basically playing it most of my childhood. Once in a while I remember something only in Thief 2 though that made the experience even more enjoyable. I actually haven't played too many FMs lately due to Dark Forces.
Supernatural levels are now fun for you? Good to hear...
By now you probably have seen an Apparition. They are reputed to be powerful enemies, yet I still don't see it. Then again, in a stealth game, guess the power of an enemy isn't too important.
Surprised, I thought you were done with DF by now. Still, I probably will be owned at Nar Shadda. So those were the hardest levels you were talking about? This, the next, and the Arc Hammer. Weird, so levels 10-13 are easier in that case...
I actually felt really confident about level 9. Now maybe I should be nervous. Well, good luck to me!
EDIT: Just tried level 9. Quite a challenge actually. I don't think the Concussion Rifle is that helpful though in these tight places. It also has yet to sell me on satisfaction, it just doesn't have what the Imperial Rifle or Autorifle had. I think the rapid fire weaponry is better in this game, I haven't even touched the Fusion Cutter, Mines, or Mortar Launcher (saving the last for a rainy day such as Ke) besides to see what they did.
Trandosians also have Concussion Rifles. That makes them the deadliest things in this level!
I arrived at the Cathedral, got the clue from the floating thing (no idea what it’s talking about) and then I had to quit for tea and then I had to leave for home. I definitely like Thief a lot more now just by getting to grips with the combat. Those spectres are a pain though, I’m sure one of them did 7 health of damage, killing me out right. I’ll just have to avoid them at all costs. They are ‘reputed to be powerful enemies’. Since Thief is made up on human and monster levels, it’d be silly for me to despair playing half the game. Now I can enjoy it more and I look forward to playing more regularly again.
You’ll be impressed by the Concussion Rifle. You won’t be thinking it’s overpowered when you’re saved by it in level 9 and beyond. Just take the time to get use to the way it works, it’s worth it.
The bunny is called Max from another game made by Lucasarts. That map easter-egg is one of a few that Lucasarts have put in the Dark Forces games. The other two appear in Jedi Knight but I’ll let you find them on your own. One of them is a bit more than a map outline, quite a bit more.
Jedi Knight does indeed have mouse look and you can save whenever you like, either via the save menu or by quick save. Everything you could ever need.
I don’t want to say anything about which levels are hard or difficult, you will obviously find out yourself very soon. I will also not say anything about when Ke appears. It could level 9, level 10, level 11 or even level 14. Or 12 or 13. It could anywhere :D And just because a few levels are much more difficult than others, it doesn’t mean the others are walk in the park. I assume you’ve not reached the wide open areas of Nar Shadda, the Concussion Rifle will come into its own before you know it.
Each weapon has its advantages depending where you are, tight corridor or massive room. I too only use a few weapons throughout the game. 95% of the time it’s the Stormtrooper Rifle. The others are the Thermal Detonator (when I have no cells) and the Repeater if the enemy is a long way away and I can’t reach them. Then there’s the Concussion Rifle which I really only use against Bounty Hunters because the Imperial Forces aren’t as much of a threat (meaning the Stormtrooper Rifle is plenty good enough for them).
There’s still one weapon you’ve not obtained… but you have seen it.
Don't worry, many people find it hard to hear the floating thing on the first listen and therefore it will repeat itself. Apparitions are powerful enough that you want to avoid them. You realize that you are saying that in a game based highly on avoidance?
Well, I just beat level 9 with all 9 lives somehow. Either I just turned into a pro or had the best luck of all time. I did end up losing one life, but found one to replace it! Trandosians have an easy trick, just shoot them first with the autogun and spam them to death! Not really trusting I could do the same with the Concussion Rifle. Still, it might be handy against Dark Troopers.
The open area was easy, you just ran as far back as you could and kept sniping/autogunning the Trandosians. So pretty much I learned I am rebelous to using the Concussion Rifle. Probably will punish me later.
Max appears throughout the series. Only problem is I have no idea what max is besides that I assume it is a rabbit.
Jedi Knight sounds awesome after Dark Forces! XD.
So I learned that level 9 is actually easy in comparison to level 4 due to no turrents.... Course, I did learn something else. Ke... could you mean Kell Dragon? Don't know what in blazes that is, but Jabba kept saying it. So I guess I was extremely hot when I said it was his pet! Also, don't tell me I just lost all my ammo up to this point (I just worked so hard to get back to full ammo on everything!).
I just wasted not using a rocket launcher due to thinking I could use it against the Kell Dragon! So apparently I am going in there with my fists and am going to pretty much attempt suicide by punching this thing in its face. Sounds like fun!
Can I still call the Kell Dragon by his proper name of Kevin? :P
The Thermal Detonator I use when going against droids or gamorreans, pretty much anything that doesn't give me ammo in return. A long way from not knowing how to use one!
Must be the Dark Trooper Gun. Didn't think you would be strong enough to use it though...
So you finally found out what Ke is. Congratulations. I do hope you enjoy your multiple failures and demises at the hands of the Kell Dragon and that the hype I built around it has not lead you to a disappointing reveal. And his name is not Kevin! How on Yavin would a giant dragon be able to perform maintenance on the outside of a spaceship!? Think Death, Think!
How did you feel when the doors opened and you saw this giant creature on four legs run at you? Are you looking forward to attempting the level tomorrow? Or dreading it? Has your misery only just begun?
You did well to complete Nar Shadda with little difficulty. If Bounty Hunters had turrets then that might have been a different matter.
Kyle is such a badass, being able to use a weapon designed for a giant robot.
I’ve not really thought much about stealth against monsters. I did successfully stealth by the two apperations before the market street, but otherwise I’ve been squinging everything I see with my sword. Those goat/cow things are cute though. It makes me sad when it starts to cry and tries to escape as I chase it down and kill it. But then I remember it belches green gas in my face and I’m able to laugh at its corpse! Ha-Ha!
Oh boy, this isn't going to go well. Also, giant dragons might still be able to turn into rocks BEFORE performing maintenance on the outside of the starship. Nowhere does it say that the Kell Dragon can't turn into a rock!
I didn't get that far, I quit as the level started. The level I am somewhat dreading but also looking forward to the challenge. Sounds like I will be stuck here a while. Still, maybe if Jabba doesn't have turrets...
It is sad, isn't it? Trandoshians that can pretty much devastate you with every shot, and I find them easier than a turret that you can easily beat by strafing.
Now for the biggest dumb question of all... why didn't he just use the one he got all the way back in LEVEL 2!!! Nothing about that one being broken, no reason for not using it besides its too big. Suddenly, not a problem!
Monsters in Thief are interesting because they don't have the "no kill" clause. Still, it is often more challenging to stealth to them than a normal guard (they are highly alert) and therefore I take the oppurtunity to sneak past anything besides Zombies.. No, they deserve to die in the biggest fireworks display of the middle ages.
By goat/cow things you mean Burricks. They are interesting due to the fact that they are highly emotional beings. By the way, you did know that you could blackjack them too, right? Well, things get pretty heated when they decide to patrol straight into a lamp post (the last two before you hit the cathedral) and guard either side (this happens as over time they apparently slide over too much).
Also, how is your loot objective going? You might not have any problems on Hard, but that last bit of loot caused me to backtrack numerous times in this level (I found it in the most obvious of places as well). Still, you didn't seem to have any difficulty finding the Silver Bracelet or Fire Poker, so I assume your pretty thorough. Me, I suffer from tiny red button syndrome (actually, anything tiny).
My FM career hasn't found much in the form of quality content. In fact I just lessened the number of maps that I even consider good to 2. Hopefully this is a first year/learning of editor problem that gets solved with time. The last 2-3 missions have been broken (one reportedly needed the non-gold version of some files due to being made prior to Thief Gold, I got the files but it still did not want to work). I am only 2 months away from Thief Gold's release date!
Go back to level 2, pick up the gun and then open you inventory and tell me it's not totalled. Level 10 is definitely one of those 'I really enjoy a challenge, but jesus christ' levels. I wish you the best of luck. The fact that you have 9 lives to begin Level 10 has already put your ahead and in the best position possible to take on one of the hardest levels in the game.
You just need to be fast and remember to sprint. Turrets were only ever a problem for me when I used A and D to turn and didn't have use of the mouse. But now their easy.
I played Level 11 last night and it is one the best, along with Level 8 for level layout and down right fun. I never had much trouble with it though because it's Imperial Forces, not Bounty Hunters. It is difficult, but it has a great balance of challenge and fun. Where as Level 10, while it is still fun, is more challenging than fun, if you get what I mean.
The explosion animation for zombies may just be one of the most satisfying things I've seen in a very long time. It reminds me of the final battle with Tyrant in Resident Evil 1. That thing went everywhere when you shot it with the Rocket Launcher.
I've only struggled on The Sword for loot. After finding the sword I was 50% short on loot and I went everywhere around the mansion looking for loot. The objective was 1,500 and I was confident that there was 1,500 gold in the level. However once I completed the level I discovered there was something like 2,500 gold available. No idea where it all was though.
Your persistence is something to me marvelled at, I think. The very idea of FM cries 'poor poor shit shit' with only a spec of 'o-k?'. I couldn't go through level after level constantly finding problems that either ruin the experiences or make it downright unplayable.
Wait, so could you use the gun on level 2? Level 10 definately sounds like one of the reasons I worked so hard to get here with all lives intact.
Turrets still are a problem based on the hard areas of level 8. I have the right keybindings now, so that isn't the problem.
Level 11 is evil probably. If there are turrets, it will be a hard mission.
Zombies are fun to blow up, it is a great satisfaction. I actually never beat Resident Evil 1. Every time those Hunters appear, I fail. Too little ammo exists by that point and as you are basically backtracking no more exists. I never really had patience with that game due to a lack of infinite saves and a fear for conserving ribbons. Dark Forces might be the first game I actually beat without a save feature (which I usually take full advantage of, I am quite the quicksave spammer).
The Sword? A lot of the loot existed on the second floor, that hallway just screams of it. Sometimes they hide nuggets pretty well, plus diamonds and rings can be very hard to spot (both of which are the biggest loot givers usually).
When playing Thief I have a massive amount of patience compared to some other titles. I tried doing something like that for Wolf3d, only to ragequit. Doom would eventually wear me down after the first 40-50 terrible missions. I was thinking of doing something like that for Dark Forces, but I definately couldn't stand bad missions easily in such a title. Some levels in Thief though I break all patience and just pretty much use a walkthrough to move on, knowing I hate the mission and don't want to play it again. The biggest thing is when a level is broken and you are unsure what works and what doesn't anymore. Lighting is extremely important in the game, so lighting bugs ruin the experience greatly. Plus I have almost no tolerance for levels with spelling mistakes as I have said before (there is one exception due to the context it is written in, but the grammar is good where it counts). Those 3 alone eliminate a large number of the missions I have played.
Similarily, I am somewhat on the fence if a level has no books or other text. A lack of a map (as I have said, some early missions cause the map button to crash) is another feature that might cause me to end up trashing the mission. Finally a kill objective can really damage a level, but I find the level better if it also has a no kill objective on higher difficulties.
What is very surprising about the FMs so far is that none are like the Bonehoard or Haunted Cathedral, every level has humans. I have found very few levels that even have Zombies. I have played 29 missions so far (I know, I am moving quite slow). Only 5 had Zombies. So nearly 1/6th, which sounds good. But 2 are basically one room tombs in otherwise human based levels. Of the remaining 3, only one would I say is really undead based. That is because one has the tomb of the other 2, but also put Zombies and other undead in prison cells and as trophies (the latter is non-living of course). The other has Zombies basically distributed among the guards as the person you are robbing is a Necromancer. Craymen are even worse, only one has had them so far in a rather small section of a human based level. So, of all 29 levels, only 1 would I even consider non-human based (and even that level had a mansion filled with humans and thus it is more comparable to Cragscleft).
The thing you collect in level 2 is a broken repeater rifle which was a beta version of the Assault Cannon (the gun used by Dark Trooper phase 2 that fires those blue energy balls).
Level 11 is one of the greats, it's not evil. I mean, you do go into the heart of the Empire, that's evil.. hmm.
Surely kill objectives can be fun if played out right. Having to kill someone without anyone finding out. How am I for human levels? As much as I enjoy monsters now I am looking forward to my next human level. Is it far off?
When are you going to tackle level 10? I want to hear about how easy you beat it after finding Nar Shadda such a walk in the park.
I've just completed Level 13. One more to go. After so many missions undertaken to get to this point, it's great to finally be on board the Arc Hammer. I'll see you here soon I'm sure. I will complete Level 14 later tonight I think.
Level 11 sounds worse now, XD. Still, the Kell Dragon might make it impossible for me to beat this level...
Kill objectives can be fun if done right. But there hasn't been a level where nobody else has to find out, those levels basically allow you to go in and hack/slash the place if you wish.
The next human level is very close indeed! The next level should give you what you are looking for. It is the second Gold exclusive level and considered by many fans to be a reason why Gold might be a waste of money (You seemed to enjoy the other hated mission of the Thieves Guild though). I like it to an extent (the concept is very good), but it definately is an extremely long mission that requires a lot of patience. You will be introduced to another group of humans, similar to the Hammerites or the Keepers, that only exists in Gold.
When you hit the next mission you will actually reach the part where I got stuck 8 years ago. No idea how I got stuck because it seems so obvious now, but perhaps it had to do with the broken part of the level.
I also think I should save you some stress. The next level is going to have a part that might or might not break (I lucked out on my replay, but many others aren't so lucky). I will say a little more when you actually hit the level if you wish so you know where it exists, but just know for now that everything you do might have to be repeated if that part breaks. That wouldn't be so bad if the mission wasn't extremely long... I think it is the only time something like this happens in a Thief 1 or 2 OM (Thief 2 is extremely stable in comparison to Thief Gold).
Hopefully I can eventually hit level 14. I know you are mocking me with level 10 due to my ease with level 9. There was a big difference though! I had my favorite weapons, the Stormtrooper Rifle, the Blaster Pistol, and the Autogun!
Thieves Guild was good and bad. There was one room near the start where I tried and tried to get by without alerting any of the guards. Before I knew it I'd spent half an hour in this area that you can walk from one end to other in 10 seconds. I ended up killing everyone in sight. The rest of it however was very good I thought. Going through the sewers to the two houses.
Thank you for the tip. I know how it is when a level (like Dark Forces level 6) is just that little bit too complicated. I'm sure you'd have figured out Level 6 eventually but I hope you didn't mind. I should definitely finish Dark Cathedral this weekend but if the next one is as long as you're saying it is, I probably won't get very far. I'll keep you updated.
It'd be very easy for Thief 4 to suck ass. Trying to not spoil too much, in Jedi Knight there's a level where you have to escape a ship that's about to be destroyed. If it was made today it'd probably be quick-time events and other button mashing shite. That's what modern games are full of. Developers must think that because it looks cool it is cool. But whenever a prompt comes up on screen to press X followed by my character doing something is so boring and dull. Pressing X to open a door is fine. Pressing X to defeat an enemy or jump from a platform onto a moving ship is dull and boring. But pressing X instead of doing things yourself is much easier, both for developers and gamers.
I realise you don't like Doom but I have been playing Doom on the PlayStation 3 (both Doom and Doom II came with the Doom 3 re-release). While it is lesser compared to Dark Forces and Quake, it is still extreme fun on a level modern games can't even begin to reach. I have played Call of Duty: Black Ops and Battlefield 4 and even when there was explosions and bullets everywhere, hand-on-heart it is no where near as fun as shooting an Imp in Doom 1. So can Thief 4 break the mould? Taking into consideration that Doom 1 was the beginning of a new era of FPS games and Thief was considered to improved the FPS genre far beyond Quake and Dark Forces... I read that Doom 4's development at one stage was a heavily scripted cinematic adventure. Call of Duty is heavily scripted and cinematic. So if Doom, the alpha of FPS, can't escape what makes modern FPS games shit, can the fuck can Thief do any better? Of course from what you've said, Thief 4 looks like CoD.
It's not all shit. Dishonoured could be considered the modern Thief and that was exceptionally brilliant. So some games break the mould. I guess we'll wait and see.
Have you not even killed athe Kell Dragon yet? You waiting for something? All you have to do is hit it on the head :D with your fists.
I am assuming your talking about the casino? It makes it a little harder when you can't hear the guards due to the music. Still, I found the area fun and actually found the sewers (as all sewers usually) to be the low point of the level.
Yeah, Thief Gold adds only 3 new missions to the game (plus an extra bonus level if you play with the files, but I recommend beating the game first). The first is somewhat long but can be fun. The second is probably the worst and has been long hated by the community. The third and final one is considered one of the best missions of the game. Apparently the first level was added to show how skilled Garrett is in his profession (he can take on a large community of Thieves). The latter two I can explain a bit more when you reach the next mission.
The tip hopefully will prevent frustration if you have no idea how to get forward. I didn't mind you spoiling Level 6, that level was getting on my nerves. I might still have to repay the favor on one of my least favorite missions as that mission is infamous for getting people confused.
Thief 4 looks terrible, I watched a trailer only to see COD at every part. Highly scripted events of near death experiences with blur effects.
From what you just described I almost expected Jedi Knight to have QTE. Escaping a ship that will be destroyed without button mashing? That will be interesting!
Gotta love modern games and how one key does everything. Press E to open the door. Press E to turn on night vison. Press E to kill the enemy. Press E to jump. It seems to have been started as it showed how powerful gaming was coming, it could look like a movie! The only problem is that they turned it into a movie...
I like Doom to an extent. My dislike usually only starts after a ton of FMs. Doom II though, I do not like very much and feel it is repetitious and dull. Modern games take the challenge out to appease everyone (some people don't have patience). I don't even understand how they could redo Thief without massive changes, the fact is that few new school gamers would want to take the time to wait for an enemy to pass.
Did I tell you the time a friend tried one of my old school games (Unreal). They basically stood in the same spot waiting for something to happen. When nothing did, they walked forward and became upset due to how confusing it was with all the ways to go. Deathmatch was even worse, they wanted to basically stand in the spawn position and shoot every enemy that ran at them (and became upset when the bots tore them apart). So what I learned is that people don't want challenge, exploration, or interaction. They apparently got used to the COD style games and now cannot revert. So, basically, a resurge of old school gaming could never happen due to a large percentage of gamers not wanting anything but the new school games (and us old schoolers would probably miss it as it would be under the radar of hundreds of terrible new school games).
I could actually imagine Doom being redone successfully before Thief. At least the premise in both COD and Doom are similar in that both require you to shoot enemies. Thief is about avoidance! You know how many people are going to buy it and expect Assassin's Creed?
Some games break the mold, you are right. The problem is that they don't get enough popularity. Old schoolers don't really flock to the new games. New schoolers don't like the style. So Dishonoured and other games like that have to rely upon old schoolers finding out about it, meaning they probably lose a lot of revenue. Not many companies are going to attempt such a suicidal operation.
The funny thing is that Dishonoured's lead designer was apparently a FM author for Thief. I already tried his earliest level (couldn't really get into it though due to some major bugs). They are all highly rated, yet as I am a tough gamer to satisfy the first one didn't really work. It was actually one of the four I originally felt were okay before rethinking the mission due to numerous glitches building up to ruin the experience (the worst was the main guard for an important piece of treasure was lying on his side and apparently was to wake up upon stealing the treasure, though he has a tendency to get alerted beforehand and thus float torwards the player). Still, none of the glitches are previous gripes like spelling mistakes or being a mission that doesn't end.
I am waiting to attack the Kell Dragon until later tonight. These hours aren't really the best time for me to be playing due to it being chaotic and somewhat stressful (It is much easier to type than play a game I really want to enjoy during such times). I actually had started level 9 earlier but ragequit in the middle due to frustration (not with the actual game, just by failing to enjoy it with the chaos). So I guess I somewhat knew how to handle the mission even if I was sprinting like a maniac and not really caring if I died. I learned from yesterday's playthrough (level 8 also was stressful due to similar reasons, I only was able to enjoy it on my replay to get lives) and therefore am waiting for a better time when things calm down and I have a couple of hours to spare without distractions.
Nothing gets your blood racing than hearing a computer man counting down how many minutes, well minute, you have left before you die. I don’t suppose Thief has anything like that.
An interactive movie, that’s all games are now. In Battlefield 4 there’s a ‘scene’ (not level) where your character (not you) crawls backwards to avoid being chopped up by a crashing helicopter. It’s a great example of how developers could not be arsed to make that a challenge where you yourself have to avoid being chopped up. The ‘scene’ continues as the building you’re on collapses but again all you do is watch. Perhaps that scene would be better if I had to escape the building, avoiding collapsing ceilings and floors. But instead I sit back and wait for the ‘epic’ and ‘intense’ scene to be over. It was probably epic and intense in the eyes of idiots of the developers. This is what you’re saying, no one wants the challenge and what could be easier than watching a movie?
I recommend you watch ‘If Doom was done today’. It takes the piss out of how shit Call of Duty is using the Doom engine. Playing Doom and then watching those videos is what sparked my distaste and subsequent moaning about modern games.
Modern games have like 8 to 10 levels, each of which take like 30 to 40 minutes. Most people want multiplayer so can you imagine anyone releasing a game with 15, 2 hour long levels?
I think I recall you telling me that about your mate. It’s a sad world when the same old tosh is bought by millions of idiots. A dummed down experience enjoyed by the masses which is what makes the money and so it will continue.
Like I’ve said before, Dishonoured and Thief are very similar and Dishonoured, being a singleplayer-only game with a long story (kinda contradicts what I said a few lines ago) has sold surprisingly well. So much so that the developers are thinking of a new game similar to Dishonoured, albeit with multiplayer so no-doubt the single-player will suffer.
Good luck with the Kell Dragon. All I can say is be patient. Think of it as a level on Thief where you have five Hammerites standing in a circle looking out at all five directions. Inside the circle is a ‘Five Star Gem of Gods’ that you must steal without being seen. Because if you are seen you die instantly because the Hammerites are actually apparitions. You know there is way to do it, just like there is way to beat the Kell Dragon. Don’t misunderstand me though, there’s no thinking involved with Ke… you literally have to beat it up with your fists. Nothing else to it ;)
A countdown to death? Nope, that would be pretty insane. Though Thief 2 can get pretty lethal at times...
You know what intense is? Running through corridors while being afraid at an enemy is around the next corner that will take out most of your life. It gets your blood rushing, especially when you have been perfect up to that point (I think Dark Forces is pretty tense this way, when I get near the end it gets highly tense as I fear messing up more). Intense is sneaking past enemies, knowing that one wrong move will cause all the alarms in the place to go off and guards to rush you at all sides. Intense is having an enemy rush you whilst intelligently dodging your attacks, knowing fully well how deadly they are if they hit you.
I watch those videos like some people read the bible. Any time I start to think new school might not be that bad (don't be exposed for a long time, you start to assume all gaming is as good as what you are playing) I just watch those videos and see what I hated. Then I look at the stuff it was picking on and how it is even worse than the Doom videos. A "If Quake was done today" also exists.
8-10 levels which take 40 minutes? Honestly that sounds like Dark Forces. You forgot to seperate the time of cutscenes and the time of actual gameplay! I heard that one of the Gears of War games has a 2 hour finale cutscene. Why release a high quality singleplayer campaign when everyone wants multiplayer?
To me I actually see new school as dumbing down the whole level design process. Old school required guns to be balanced across the map. New school gives you all weapons. Old school requires the developer to figure out the average player's ability to distribute ammo and health. New school regens health and drops care packages. Old school allowed you to get to almost any location you could see in a level. New school allows you to go where the developers want you to go. Old school rewarded exploration. New school punishes it with 5 second time limits to get back to the battlefield. Old school required strategy and timing, knowing when to dodge and when to attack. New school allows players to be basically invincible as long as they remember to hide every few seconds. Old school created their own universes full of unique creatures and worlds filled with unique and distinguishable geography so you felt you were part of it. New school uses a real life setting full of humans and worlds based on the geography of the setting (flat with square buildings) with less focus on uniqueness as the player is expected to run through it rather quickly. Ironically old school you moved faster and even had bunny hops and rocket jumps which caused designers to rethink levels to not break with these exploits. New school forces you to move slow, jump only where they tell you to jump, and rocket launchers that kill everything instantly. Old school had jump pads which allowed for vertical as well as horizontal movement, meaning even more tense multiplayer sessions. New school gives you perks, which eliminates all tenseness as everybody spams them.
The publishers are basically trying to make money by giving the people what they want. The designers are basically trying to make money by giving the publishers what they want (otherwise you end up with no publisher to back you). I see the evolution to this point, so I know that the industry is at fault as it basically tried to create more and more of a cinematic experience (at the time it was probably quite impressive as it showed the power of the game). So by trying to push forward by promoting the greater potential, we basically ended up in this rut where people want a certain type of game and don't want to shift to anything else. Perhaps it has to do with patience too, many in the working class are getting more and more in a rush and therefore are less apt to want to play a game like Thief that takes a long amount of time. A shorter game might actually be ideal for these people as they want to do something quick without having to get too involved. Ever heard of anyone caring about the COD singleplayer campaign?
Dishonoured definately intrigues me and I will eventually try to head that direction. I eventually plan on doing every single Unreal engine game as I seem to like many of the older titles (Deus Ex, Rune, Unreal). Course, I haven't really seen how they have progressed since the first Unreal Engine.
Hammerites guarding something in a circle formation? Too easy (you wouldn't know how it is possible just yet though)! Hammerites are actually appartions? That actually made it a lot easier. Based on the fact that you are trying to say it is a tedious thing with a lot of difficulty based on your experiences with Thief and your description, I think I can convert it into better terms (you won't see it until Thief 2 so I can't say it). Ugh, that is almost impossible, and I have never had such skill! In a circle?!?
Funny thing is I was misunderstanding you until you said that. I was going to try anything possible to see if there was some little thing I was missing.
Wait a minute... fists... Doom? Could it be like punching the cyberdemon with your fists? That was always fun!
EDIT: Nope. Not the same. The cyberdemon had a pattern. This thing leaps...
What happened to THE Kell Dragon?!?? There are two at least!!!!
EDITEDIT: You kill one, two more come out! Wow...
EDITEDITEDIT: Diving in and out ends with me getting one life. Playing "rock-em sock-em" by standing in front of the Kell Dragon and punching it ends with four lives. So the strategy here is to do nothing?
So I learned something even more interesting. Grans cause more damage and are faster than a Kell Dragon. I honestly would rather fight a bunch of them then some more Grans at this point!
EDITX4: Redid with 6 lives after killing all 5 Kell Dragons. Apparently punching causes you to extend the distance that you are hit, so it is pretty much a hit when mouth is closed deal. Still don't know how to deal with Grans though. Ugh, they are so fast! I think you were promoting the wrong enemies...
Also, I am already unable to find a way forward. Raised a floor but the door remains locked. I found a secret, but don't know if it was worth it due to a Gran. Ugh, button hunting again!
EDITX5: Well, I don't see how this can possibly be a puzzle. There is barely any space! I press the switch, shouldn't the door open? Hmm, this smells of broken. I can punch 5 Kell Dragons yet I fail at finding the tiny switch that opens the door (I tried tracing every wall). Grenades do nothing, punching does nothing... Perhaps it is fate, the game is too hard and it wants to prevent me getting injured by my own stupidity (aka I should run from a Kell Dragon when I don't need to kill it, yet I insist on its death). Is it required I leave one alive? Jabba feels pity and lets me go? Sounds stupid, but I am confused. Well, I guess I can retry the small area tomorrow after a well needed rest. Button searching gets stressful, especially when I was enjoying punching everything to death and probably lost all logic in favor of "punchy punchy". This must not be my night.
An extremely difficult enemy is intense for me. The Maulotaur from Heretic (don’t know if you’ve played it) is much stronger than anything in Quake. There’s a level that loops in on itself and I remember trying to outrun the Maulotaur, running around the level but every time I looked back it was there. The reason you would want to avoid the Maulotaur is it takes massive amounts of ammo to kill and a lot of time. It’s a boss monster that reappears throughout the game. In someways though leaving it alive can be more intense and epic than dealing with it. In comparison, a modern war games idea of a boss would be a Helicopter or Tank. Not exactly a bad thing. The Apache Gunship in TimeSplitters 2 (a classic) was the most fun and difficult fight in the game. But in BF4 you might a number of Tanks and you are given rockets launchers and APCs so there’s no intense, ‘oh shit where is it, oh shit there it is’ like you get with some of the stronger Doom, Heretic and Unreal enemies.
It does put things into perspective when running around a pixelated map being chased by a sprite (albeit a rather menacing sprite) is more epic and intense than the ‘epic’ and ‘intense’ scene where you watch yourself almost get chopped up by a helicopter and then survive the building collapsing from under you.
One thing you mention really defines the line between modern and old. Regenerating health makes new games much easier than old more than any other game mechanic. As you said, running around the last part of a level, not knowing what is around the corner, expecting to be slaughtered as you turn that last corner. That amount of immersion can really only be true if you have 10 health left with no health packs. Where as in modern games you get hurt and just have to hide for 10 seconds and back to full health.
I never expected you'd have more trouble exiting the room than killing all five 'Hammerites' all five 'directions', the 'Five Star Gem of Gods’, all 5 Kell Dragons.
Check the door itself and you'll find a clue as to how to open it.
Never played the Heretic series, not that I haven't thought about it. It just might be too old school for me, I barely can play Dark Forces. Anything older I might not be able to tolerate at all, Doom gets old really fast. I played the original Timesplitters (TS2 was somewhat too new for my era). The game was okay, a bit too arcady for my tastes. BF4 never gives that sense of danger, that part that you feel absolutely daunted by what you are encountering.
The sad thing is the new school games might be more intense if you had to do those things yourself.
People have told me that Regen health doesn't exist on higher difficulties, but it still exists in multiplayer. If regen health didn't exist, what would they do? I don't think medkits exist. The game would never just give you nothing, that would be expecting too much of the player.
I kinda realized why you said 5 when I found all 5. The more I fight them the easier it feels. You just have to keep running in circles and hope your hands don't get tired. Remember, Doom has Berserk runs where you basically run around with just your fists (no packs) and punch everything to death, including the Cyberdemon. I think I did the latter, meaning I have had training with my fists. The leaps are what get me.
As for exiting the room, I told you I suffer from TRBS (Tiny Red Button Syndrome). I can make combat into a cakewalk, but then get stuck on a door that is obvious for everyone else.
Check the door itself? I thought I had checked it fully over. Well, here we go again!
EDIT: Let's see. What do we know about the door?
-It's grey (Well thank you captain obvious...)
-It has 3 lines in the northeast corner. You only reach the first one without jumping, meaning it is about 2/3 feet above you. You bump the ceiling when jumping. (meaning if I blew the ceiling I could climb up it)
-It has blue and grey wires on the side. The middle blue wire has a gold line. Beneath that is a curvy wire. (Seems pretty solid, no idea if I have to make the wire straight somehow)
-The ceiling is made of diamonds. Of course it varies on even and odd, but it is around 13x6. (But not able to be blown up?)
-There looks like there is a spike insignia on the door. Four spikes and a straight line. (My first thought was Kell Dragon. I might have to replay and look at their backs).
-There are 3 grey bars, one on the top and two on the sides. The bars have bolts in the corners. (Seems secure, something needs to release the locks)
-There are lines on the door that meet near the lower left hand corner. (Lines means breakable, yet in this case it seems to be doing nothing)
-It has a vent underneath, but that just looks like a texture and is too small to fit. The vent has lines, but the middle is a honeycomb pattern of 2x4. The vent platform is raised on a surface with grey bars at the top like on the door and with a horizontal line near the bottom. (Sounds obviously breakable, yet not working either!)
-It can survive punches and grenades. (Perhaps that is not the way)
-It is heavily guarded. (It must be the way forward)
-A secret exists nearby with a Gran and a medikit.
-It is surrounded by a pit that is raised by a switch in a guardhouse. (Maybe I need to check the pit more heavily. It might need to be opened BEFORE I push the switch.) The guardhouse is empty besides a revive and the switch, which apparently cannot be reversed. Between the rooms is a grouping of wires that is similar to the door wires (meaning that probably isn't the way). The middle room has two chains, one is abandoned and another with a dead droid. (There seems to be no point to them besides as decorations, like in Doom with the hanging bodies) The droid only has one eye; it also has suckers and weird tentacles that makes it look like Cthulhu (Don't tell me, I will have to fight this thing at some point). On closer inspection (why am I examining this droid in high detail? To know what I am encountering later) it seems to have a shotgun. So Cthulhu with a shotgun? Why was Ke a threat again when these things are roaming around? Lobstermen are seen as carvings on the walls to further the ominous coming of the beast. Wait... Cthulhu looked like a Quarren, so sticking to the Star Wars universe it must be one of them.
-Jumping in and out of the game caused it to crash, meaning it is quite a high quality door in frame rates. (To put this much effort into a door must mean for sure something exists in these bullets) On further inspection it seems to happen at random in my game, meaning this is taking more time than it should. (So ignore this entire bullet).
-This door looks entirely different from previous doors. (Meaning it must be important)
-One of these bullets has a clue. (Not that I am getting anything, I feel I just wasted a lot of time looking at a door and the surrounding area with a rediculous amount of detail put into it. Thanks for foreshadowing the coming of the Quarren though, shotguns to the face sounds painful)
I guess I will quit for now and assess these facts, trying to figure out if there was something else you wanted to show me besides that I am going to die a lot.
Maybe it is a boss fight? I did say it was coming. So should I wait? I am a bit lazy if nothing appears to be happening though...
I think your TRBS has made you switch to a different game and find another door to describe in detail without you knowing. I'm not even sure you're at a door. What I meant was is notice that it requires a blue key. But your mention of Grans and a revive puts you beyond the blue door so I have no idea which door you are talking about anymore ¬_¬
I don't know of any games where health regen is cancelled in higher difficulties. I do know in Killzone 2 that on Elite (nightmare) you die after like 3 hits but that just means you have to be a cover-whore the whole game. In Doom you can run about and kill shit without being a puff.
So then, after no doubt killing the Kell Dragons a million times by now only be to halted by a door, what do you think of Ke? Is it as good as you were expecting? Was a great experience having to take on 5 Dragons with your fists?
Blue door? I haven't seen a blue door... I am in the room just past the Kell Dragons, with the Gammoreans guarding a switch. The revive is in the corner. The Grans are on a ledge. I will try again later, but I have no idea where I am anymore or if it is even accessable. So you weren't trying to clue me in about the Quarren?
Yeah, so basically the lesson is to keep hiding in new school games.
The Kell Dragon fight is fun. It wasn't as dangerous as I was expecting though, I told you how the Grans are the bigger nightmare for me. At least until I find a weapon (have collected a few thermal detonators, but save them to try to blow up the broken door). The strategy to the Kell Dragons is not to try to hit them when they go through the door and otherwise try to get in a bunch of punches.
Ugh, what is it with all these broken FMs lately in Thief (The latest had you stealing a Serpentyle Torc only for the objective to never check off, rendering the mission impossible to complete)! I cannot wait to reach Thief 2 because apparently that was when the FM quality went up (the editor was a lot better than the first one). No idea what quality missions look like yet (besides the two I have in my collection, they are decent by T1 standards).
Now you know where I am! I raised the pit, that is the switch in the guardhouse. Gear? You get that back before you go in the door? Well, that's interesting... Still have no idea where that would be found in the 3-4 rooms I keep circling.
You still haven't told me the secret to the door but I have some new ideas. The Quarren head might be the switch. Perhaps all I need to do is shoot it to open the door!
EDIT: I hate my lack of perception so much right now. When I jumped to punch it, I suddenly got 50 thermal detonators and all my other weapons. That Quarren head was apparently my gear...
Well, at least collecting all the ammo wasn't for nothing.
EDITEDIT: Beat the mission... barely. All lives collected, wasted on those stupid Grans and Mines. The Kell Dragons weren't that bad, only lost 3 lives to them. The rest was due to the 2 nightmares. Sad, I didn't even die once from a Trandoshian yet give me a couple of Grans and it is a nightmare. I actually wish the level had more Trandoshians, they are great for ammo for the Autogun (100 rounds per enemy) and easy to kill. I saw two lives but have no idea how to get to them, and I know where another is after blundering into the room.
This level seems to be built in 2 parts. Part 1 is challenge, fighting everything with your fists. Part 2 is ambush, constant ambush. Every door opened had mines behind it, every stockpile had mines in it, behind every pillar was a mine. The Grans covered the rest and have become real nightmares when trying to use thermal detonators (trying to conserve ammo after they stopped tossing me Trandoshians).
Ugh, do I even want to try the mission again for those extra lives? I have spent enough time with this level already, yet feel I need those lives.
I didn't even realise you'd not fathomed collecting your gear. Lol. Perhaps Ke did more damage mentally than it did physically.
Well now you have a gem of a level to relax with. By relax I mean loads and loads of Stormtroopers.
I think I know what you mean about sprite FPS games. I don't hate them like you do, but I seem to need to be in the right state of mind to enjoy them. I started Hexen a few months ago but gave up quickly. Now I've played Dark Forces and currently playing Doom and Hexen (again). I don't see the problem with them. When you're in the heat of the action you don't notice if you're fighting a 2D or 3D enemy.
Hint: Those two extra lives (I'm assuming you're talking about the two after the large room where you raise the bridge) do not require a tiny red button or hidden anything. A second hint is hidden in what I should wrote.
I reckon you'll be ok with 7 lives in level 11.
Stormtroopers are easy so it's really just a shooting gallery whenever they're around.
I see the second hint if I am correct. So there are actually either four or five extra lives in level 10 based on "assuming". Nothing hidden? Oh boy, so that means I am supposed to jump to that platform somehow...
Thanks for the 2 hints. You know exactly what room I was talking about.
You never know... you thought Kell Dragons would be the problem with level 10. Not a locked door or Grans.
Stormtroopers are one thing. Turrets are another. I remember you saying they appear very frequently near the end, which is where I am at. So that means I am going to run out of lives very quickly, especially if combined with mines (Actually I would have had 8 if it wasn't for that corridor with them behind doors, I run to the opposite end but still lose all of my shielding and eventually die). The other was from a Kell Dragon as I got stuck on something in the doorway.
Turrets appear rarely in Level 11 but those few times they do, they are perfectly placed to make them a nightmare XD Good luck with that. None in Level 12 or 13 but then they appear again (rarely) in Level 14. But! For you see, you have killed Ke. However, do you know that Ke was just the first form of an even bigger enemy!? Quarren is real and he awaits you in Level 14. Imagine a machine that can deal wildly fast damage and that can kill you! Level 14 awaits your end my son.
Level 12 (despite having Bounty Hunters) is very quaint and slow-paced compared to the rest of the final levels. Level 12's difficulty feels more akin to those of the beginning of the game. But why am I saying this? A door beat you, so you'll probably never complete Level 12 because it involves a... moving bridge. Still got nothing on Quarren though :D
So when I play Thief this weekend and have no idea how to get into the Cathedral have I earned a hint after all the help I've given to you?
I found a solution, but not sure if it is the intended method. I mine jumped it. Was that the answer? I didn't know they knew about it at this point...
XD, this doesn't sound good. Quarren is the final boss? Of course :P! A machine that deals fast damage, can kill you, and requires you to punch it? Oh boy. Well, at least it isn't a bigger version of a Gran that drops mines and shoots like a turret. That would be a nightmare.
Oh god! Not a moving bridge. Level 12 is extremely easy but has the hardest challenge of them all! I think the lesson here is, give me an impossible enemy and I will beat it. Give me a locked door and I freak out and cannot solve it.
Of course. I just didn't want to give you a hint if you didn't want one :). Instead of one, I give three (next three paragraphs), so if you wanted a bit less than just read at your leisure.
Try listening to the Eye again. It repeats what it says every time you jump up on that ledge (and will continue to speak no matter where you go, so you can start walking around and listening to what it has to say). No idea if you knew that or not, but it might help.
Secondly, this level is somewhat of a trick. It is called "The Haunted Cathedral" but you only get to see the exterior in this level. I already have prepared 2 clues but will wait until you want them based on this new info (which are somewhat clues in themselves).
By the way, have you completed your other objectives? For some reason when I was younger I had trouble finding the Serpentyle Torc.
I will leave reading that until I try to play Thief again on Friday. Quarren by the way is a melee enemy like the Dark Trooper phase I AND he can not move. Dun dun duun!
I just realised now, Level 12 actually has two moving bridges. And one of them moves...... IN A CIRCLE!!!!!! I think you're stuffed. You won't ever see Mohc.
The thing about Hexen and Hexen II, it is less an FPS and more like a puzzle solving game that just so happens to have the same gameplay as an FPS. It's not a bad thing as it does make it a thinking game like Thief (albeit for different reasons). The problem comes when you just can't find the next piece of the puzzle and you're backtracking again and again. Hexen II is the worst because it gives you clues as to where find stuff but you have to remember the clues and unlike Thief, you can't take them with you.
Apart from the puzzels, the great thing that keeps Hexen I and II interesting is different characters. The Warrior (Strength/Speed), the Mage (Magic) and the Paladin (a bit of everything) and the Archer (HexenIIonly). My favourite for both games is the Warrior because it's the most different one where you actully get a decent melee weapon.
Melee amd can't move? But you have to kill it with your fists...
Ugh, this will be confusing... Mohc? I get to see him? So we have Quarren and Mohc...
Hexen would probably be the hardest game of all time then! Also, I never enjoy being a mage in any rpg. Simply put, I enjoy running at enemies and attacking them (thus why Kell Dragons are actually quite fun).
Based on your silence, you are confirming that I am right? Well, I am able to get them.
EDIT: 9 lives! I also found out to destroy the mines you just blow them up before going into the door...
I never said anything about having to is your fists. You can stand back and shoot it if you want.
Well done on being able to beat Level 10 so easily. I wound consider Level 10 to be the hardest one in the game. Although the last 4 levels are not easy, that fact you've pro'd 10 will surely mean you'll have no real trouble from now on in.
The Warrior's strength/speed is compenstated by him having a decent melee weapon and a clunky but still usable ranged weapon. However primarily you'll stick with the melee as it's more fun and easier on most enemies.
A melee enemy that you can stand back and shoot but will remain in place? Why does that sound extremely easy. There has to be a trick on the final boss...
Wow, I thought the Arc Hammer would be harder than Level 10. I didn't beat it easily though, it was those 2 extra lives that saved me (didn't need the third one). The Kell Dragons make the game pretty intense, because even though they can be easy if done properly it is also very easy to mess up (one game I kept spawning inside them and therefore had to punch for the few seconds I had before I was mauled to death).
Melee can be pretty fun if you have a good speed. In System Shock I was rushing enemies with a crowbar way too much more often than the developers probably intended (probably the reasons why I never trained with ranged and therefore exploding enemies (which if you can see can injure you, similar to mines in this game) and insta-kill lazers all while navigating around a room of explosive barrels caused me some trouble). Even though that game had challenge, it also became a bore due to the flawed controls and UI (I kept comparing it to the superior Deus Ex).
I would say I would try Deus Ex but I'm pretty happy to just stick with Thief, unless Deus Ex is massively better. I love Melee weapons, like I said, bringing a knife to a gun fight can be the most fun in the world if the knife is good enough.
The Arc Hammer is one of those levels that gets easier the more you do it (like most levels). You might have difficulty to begin with.
I don't recommend Deus Ex like I did for Thief. Thief is the best series in my opinion, so I couldn't argue how it is better. Plus, I never really played Deus Ex and am going off a demo I played for 2 or 3 days. I was just saying how since I played both SS2 and Deus Ex for a similar span, I could compare and saw how Deus Ex destroyed System Shock 2. That isn't much of an impressive feat as many FPS beat that game (Even Doom or Dark Forces is more tolerable to the newer game, proving an exception to my theroy). Don't misunderstand what I say or think I am trying to recommend other games (especially since you haven't touched the best, Thief 2).
You have noticed how I am close to fail with almost every level, then I replay and get all nine lives in the end? That shows definately that they get easier on replays.
By the way, started (but didn't finish as I had to quit earlier than expected) level 11. I think I made it to the vault, it was some door puzzle in a circular area. I was amazed by how easy the beginning area was. Then a Dark Trooper Phase 1 showed up and I tried gunning it down, only to learn that it takes a large portion of your ammo and it is wiser just to use thermal detonators. The Phase 2 Dark Troopers (found 2 so far) actually were rather easy in comparison to those turrets (as in, I didn't lose any lives to a Dark Trooper while losing 5 to those 4 turrets in the throne room). I also learned that thermal detonators either don't have much splash damage or you have to make a direct hit with a turret which means it is almost safer to use a gun.
Well I do recommend Dark Forces II. It's probably the only game I can do 100% (hardest difficulty/all secrets) without any problem at all (not counting GTAIII and Vice City as they take so damn long, but they are the only GTA games I have completed 100%). There is however very little in the way of puzzles. It's more of a run and shoot FPS (like Quake). Not a bad thing. Do you think you'll play it straight away after Dark Forces?
I knew you'd get stuffed by those four turrets XD But holy hell, 5 lives? You really are a special kind of person.
The vault is almost the end of the level, shame you couldn't keep playing for 5 more minutes. All you have to do is take a cheeky exit out of the ISO building (taking you directly back near the landing zone) and meet back up with Jan. But is it that simple?
I can't really do many games 100% as I fail to find all the secrets. Never been a good tiny button hunter as you know. Also never touched GTA. No puzzles and more shooting? Sounds like fun, I liked Quake's style. I will try to play it not long after Dark Forces. Still need to acquire it (unlike DF1 I don't have it on hand).
XD, turrets are my nightmare. The first Dark Trooper Phase 2 somewhat weakens me though as he switches to rockets and enters the doorway. I have yet to die from one, but they definately do some damage. The turrets on the other hand are a nightmare. And you said Kell Dragons were hard?
Seriously?!? I replayed the level and had to stop AGAIN at the EXACT same place! 5 more minutes? Wow, I thought getting back to my ship would result in backtracking the entire level with numerous Phase 3 Dark Troopers (every appearance seems to bring about an even more powerful model) appearing with Concussion Rifles and that weird Rocket Launcher thing I picked up near the red key (final weapon of the game).
I can't believe I quit twice when leaving was that simple (as in shooting . I thought for sure it would take a while. At least the distance I have to handle Phase 3 Dark Troopers will be shorter (or will it just be one, like a boss fight as the other two were, therefore it seems more likely that a mob of Phase 2 Dark Troopers will appear afterwards).
EDIT: Third time was the charm and I finally was able to play the mission without quitting early. I successfully beat the turrets, even made it into the vault with all nine lives. I was highly paranoid at the large circular rooms and the good amount of items I was being given. The audio from Jan didn't help. Suddenly I find myself back at the ship and missles are coming at me. I quickly dodge and start firing my autogun while strafing, expecting a long and deadly fight. To my surprise Boba Fett just died. No escape, no anything, he just died (talk about breaking canon). Also, why do I get the feeling that Boba Fett was easier than a Dark Trooper, extremely easier than a turret, and even easier than a Kell Dragon. Should I have not laughed uncontrollably after finishing the level due to how easy Boba Fett was? Will I be having a rematch? I sure do hope so, yet there should have been some reason Kyle couldn't have just killed Boba Fett on the spot.
So apparently it was that simple! Wow. I can't believe I quit early expecting a long return when it was nearly a cakewalk. I think the Stormtroopers got off more shots on me than Boba Fett...
EDITEDIT: Started level 12 and found my worst enemy. It was surprisingly not the moving bridge, but a button that does something just beyond the one that goes in a circle (but I don't know what it does). Ugh, why do I have to be so bad with doors and buttons?
EDITX3: I just defeated my greatest adversary! I enjoyed that level a lot actually, pretty fun gimmick and a lot of Trandosians to destroy. Surprised that they didn't spam me with Dark Troopers after level 11's implementation of them. Made it to level 13 without even needing to replay for extra lives (though that was because I found one in the explosive canisters, a Gran ambushed me when I had my back turned on the circular bridge of doom). The Executor... sounds like this will be quite a painful level. Wonder if any Dark Troopers will be lying around here...
FUN FACT: I was electrocuted today. My job involves making milk shake and as I was mixing up a batch of milk shake the shitty hand blender I was using (the good one broke) dropped in the milk. Since the hand blender was shitty, it came back up covered in glumps of powder. I poured water over it to clean it (while it was still plugged in) and got electrocuted (it's not water proof like the other ones I used). I dropped it back in the milk and went to pick it up and got electrocuted again. I then picked up by the wire dropped it on the table and unplugged it.
If I told anyone (at work or at home) I would either be told 'awwe' or 'report it'. Since I can't be bothered to do either I decided to just get on with it, go into town and buy a new blender and complete the batch.
So you've now learned something about my job and are the only person in the world to know I electrocuted myself like an idiot.
I too am not really good at finding all the secrets in FPS games. To this day I can't locate every secret area in Quake II off-by-heart. Don't even get me started on Quake... jeez. But like I said, Dark Forces II, not a problem. I know every single secret area like the back of my face... erm? Wait what?
When you do buy Dark Forces II, you can get a bundle of
'Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II' and
'Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith'.
The only problem with it (I bought it to get MotS) is that there is an audio issue (VERY RARELY) with the force power, Speed. Regarless I recommend it since MotS is even better than Dark Forces II in many ways. Especially the last 3 levels which are still the greatest levels in any game for me... of all time.
I currently have 4 games on the trot, Killzone 2, Thief, Doom and Hexen. I think I would very much like to complete them all before I start anything else. Which means (surprisingly) I don't feel like playing Dark Forces II following the recent completion of the first one. Even so, I know it like the back of my... never mind done that already ¬_¬... so if you get stuck at all, I could tell you anything without even thinking.
I really can't believe you found the Dark Trooper phase II so easy. If you get caught for a second in its stream of blue balls you will learn the meaning of pain. I had full health and shield and lost all but 61 health within a second. I guess my experiences with the phase II mostly come from when I didn't have strafe or mouse. I'm sure you can extend a care for this fact, without strafe the phase II would be a nightmare.
Boba Fett is too easy. And no there is no rematch. He is branded the most difficult enemy in the game and I think he did have the potential to be but falls quite a way off the mark. I mean, a flying rocket firing Bounty Hunter? HOW THE FUCK did the developers manage to mess up? Your timing is impeccable because I am going to play Doom Episode II tomorrow and of course it ends with the infamous Cyberdemon. HE is not a disappointment, HE is a fucking a badass.
You are fucking these levels right now. Already at Level 13? I told you Level 12 was a breeze. I did just think that you might find difficulty in Dark Forces II because you are so use to normal FPS games... no wait... never mind. You'll find out very soon >:D
I guess this will be a spoiler so I'll mark it as such. Since you asked I'll tell you so it's your choice to read it or not. I will place it at the end so you can easily ignore it.
The Dark Trooper phase III is of course the third version of the Dark Troopers but it is also the latest and last. At the time of Dark Forces there is one phase III. The phase III is the final boss of the game at the very end of level 14.
Electrocuted yourself twice and still continue on? Congrats on your fortitude!
Quake pretty much was me using guides, I don't know how people know where secrets are in different games without looking them up. By the way, did you look up the secrets for DF2 or are they just very unconcealed in comparison to other games? Quake, I might remember quite a bit of the secrets. Doom is the same way. Funny thing is that I remember very few in Thief 2.
MotS definately should be acquired as well. But is the problem with force power in the original game if you get the bundle? Was it like some different patch or something?
I have 2 games on the trot, Thief and Dark Forces. I had Diablo, but I got tired with it as it gets very repetitious. Thank goodness I still have you around to save my hide :P. I probably could do the same for Thief 2 until the final level (which as I said I never completed due to wanting to beat Thief Gold first and getting the videos for T2 working).
I can imagine without strafe I would have experienced a world of pain (even worse than the turrets). With the strafe key though, I feel like I am playing any other fps with a limit on looking up and down (not important when fighting something on the same plane as you).
Boba Fett? The toughest enemy in the game? There has to be something wrong. His rockets were too slow and you had too much room to move around... Doom's Cyberdemon is an awesome fight, though rather easy after replaying it like crazy. Try beating him with your fists, that might teach you why I found Kell Dragons easy!
I am doing that good? I just thought the levels were extremely easy before a world of pain. Dark Forces II must have a lot of puzzles...
There is a phase iii! Great, I can't wait for the confrontation! Now I wonder how they expect it to be the best model if it is only melee and cannot move while you can shoot it with everything you got...
I’d barely call it a near-death experience. It felt more like a pin prick followed by a red mark on my palm. And even that has all but vanished now.
I will admit I looked up to find most of the secrets. Most of them are pretty easy to find but I did have to use guides to find those few difficult ones. About 5 years ago when I did this I seemed to make habit of remembering every single one off-by-heart. PRO-TIP you gain force powers and force power strength by using force stars you earn by playing the game. Finding all the secret areas in a level gains you one extra star.
It’s not really a spoiler to tell you (even when you haven’t started playing) that Jerec is the final boss. And having more force stars will help you with defeating Jerec (whom some ways is actually as tough as the Skaarj Queen).
I think anyone who can beat the Cyberdemon with their fists will find any FPS a piece of piss. I for one am not at that level.
I just said Dark Forces II is more run and shoot than puzzles. Sure there a few but nothing like Thief.
I never said the phase III was the melee/not –moving enemy ¬_¬
Good to hear! The wikia would get pretty quiet without you :P!
Force stars give you force stuff? Who would have guessed!
It isn't a big spoiler to tell me the final boss is somebody who I have never heard of? I would agree, lol. With or without boots with the Skaarj Queen?
Eh, the Cyberdemon is mostly patience and timing. Also, don't have the Brutal Doom mod installed or he will stomp you and shoots 3 rockets on every shot. I couldn't do that one, that is the ultimate challenge.
Oh, forgot. No idea why Dark Forces 2 will be challenging in comparison to your typical FPS. If it is because you do melee, remember the Kell Dragon.
But you said the final boss was, who you codenamed Quarren...
Also, just beat level 13 as well. They are definately trying to be nice, giving you all this stuff right before the end. Surprised how quick the Executor was. Well, when I am ready to play again I guess I will be trying (but probably failing) to tackle the final level of the game!
The most interesting thing about level 14 being the final level is that the risk of losing lives is a lot less. What do I have to conserve them for after this? I am not going to run headlong and die like a maniac, but I won't have to replay to get 9 lives. I also have saved up a fully loaded rocket launcher (and as much as I could find for the Dark Trooper Weapon) just for this level! Phase 1s can taste my total collection of thermal detonators, and based on the fact that you said tight corridors it will also be a perfect place for mines!
Fighting Jerec without using Force Powders is like fighting the Queen without the boots. But a big part of Jedi Knight is mastering your force powers. But in the end it's up to you.
I'm sure my Doom (Doom 3 BFG Edition) has the Cyberdemon firing 3 shots at time. Am I ultimate?
Never said Qurran was the final boss. Just an enemy, exclusive to Level 14.
Good luck with 14. It's no walk in the park but it is still fun. If you thought 13 was short, then you will find 14 to be a marathon. By the time you reach the phase III Dark Trooper you will be tired.
Wish you all the best on your transgression from Dark Forces to Jedi Knight.
If you need any help in getting Jedi Knight's cutscenes to work then ask. Being able to watch the cutscnes is more important than Dark Forces I to follow the story.
3 shots at a time? You mean in a sequence, not 3 shots sideways. Plus, it is still easy if you aren't punching him. You must also be able to be stomped (which I believe causes instant death).
Sweet, a stand in place enemy!
14 shouldn't be easy, it is the final misison. I can imagine Dark Troopers will be spammed at this point and I will see just how bad they are. Long? Like Jabba's Ship long?
Thanks, hopefully it isn't too long before I can start Jedi Knight.
Cutscenes seemed pretty pointless in Dark Forces 1 beyond the first one. I kinda got all the info I needed from briefings. But Jedi Knight II's has a tendency not to work?
Also, slight quality increase in the Thief FMs. Though everything terrible still exists, the automap has now been figured out. That is the blue thing on your map that tells you where you are. Before this point it seems like authors could only create the image of the map but couldn't tell you where you were. Though early and ugly, this is definately a step forward.
EDIT: I wanted to thank you for turning me onto Dark Forces by the way Raadec. The early levels feel slow and dragging, the controls are clunky, and it had sprite enemies which I thought was my problem with old school games. The Arc Hammer is the exact opposite of that, it was addicting and fun! Unlike Jabba's Ship, which I felt went for too long, I was almost depressed at the end at how short this level felt! This has to be one of the best levels I have seen in such an early FPS! Though the game never got to the point where it made me want to do every fan mission like Thief, it does offer an enjoyable experience and doesn't seem to be a drag like Elder Scrolls.
The Dark Trooper Phase III was big! Still, he was no match for my barrage of grenades (found out it didn't fire rockets...). I kinda blundered into the room, expecting to take the upper corridors after looking down below, only to have the final boss fight. Still, where and what was Quarran? I still never found what you were talking about!
You were right about the Phase II's not permitting mistakes by the way. I got cornered in the room with the large number of Phase I and IIs. By the end I only had three lives (course, a lot had to do with using myself to put out mines after finding that I ran out of thermal detonators on those Phase Is)! I only ended up firing the Dark Trooper weapon once, and it happened to be on a Phase I (who just blocked it). The concussion rifle also seemed to not be that useful in comparison to my trusty Autogun.
So, I guess now I will have to wait a little bit to get Jedi Knight... ugh, just when I was getting into it!
Also, I think you could see how much the game took an impact near the end by how many levels I did in one day. I suddenly felt intrigued to play, something the earlier levels failed to do (except level 8).
Jedi Knight has a tendency not to work (fully) Don't let this put you off, fixing it is not difficult. You can make it (gameplay wise) work perfectly. I do have to watch cutscenes on a smaller window but it does not impede the game.
I'll start off by saying the version I play and have always played is my original copy that I got as a kid. Along with Quake II (same year) it has had some troubles playing on modern PCs. It's annoying since Quake and Dark Forces both work perfectly without any problems.
If you buy the newer copy that comes with MotS you may not have the same issues. Although the only reason I suspect there may be a difference between the two copies is that Force Speed audio glitch that never happened on my original JK but has happened on the new one when I played it once.
Congratulations on completing Dark Forces. I'm glad I was able to return the favour after you introduced me to Thief. Hope you don't have to wait too long to get Jedi Knight. Sometimes going from one game to its sequel can get a bit boring if they are both made with the same engine. Even Quake and Quake II although very different still 'feel' very similar. One of the great things about going between Dark Forces I & II is they are completely different games made in completely different eras. DF1 being made in 1994 when the 2.5D of Doom was the best. But DF2 came out almost four years later, almost three years after Quake had introduced 3D FPS. So two very different experiences following the great hero Kyle Katarn (who you will learn to like a whole lot if you don't already).
Hopefully that's a sign you're getting into an era where people knew what they were doing and were able to make decent maps.
Thief has a tendency not to work (fully) as well, so you know I can be patient with fixing a game. The biggest thing is that I want to try to keep it vanilla (even if such glitches would be fixed on a source port). I don't know if Jedi Knight has them, but apparently Thief has patches which try to "modernize" the game while making it highly ugly. On the other hand it makes it work on modern computers a lot better than the one we play (meaning extremely easy to install) so most people are playing the new version and we are a last bastion.
Isn't it interesting how that went? DOS games work great on the computer. Even Quake works perfectly. But you get a little further and you hit Tomb Raider, Thief, Quake II, Jedi Knight 2, ect that don't work properly on Windows. It seems 1996-98 is the years of compatibility problems (but also the years of the best games!).
We will have to see, I am getting the bundle so I can play MotS as well! Hope I will want more gameplay after the original game!
I disagree about sequels on the same engine. Sometimes by using the same engine, they can improve flaws in the original game and make it into a better experience. I guess I just have that opinion due to Thief 1 vs 2. I didn't learn too much about Kyle in the first game. I am excited for the improved experience of Jedi Knight 2, as you know I prefer the 3D FPS.
I hope so. I felt in Dark Forces like I was blundering around, not really knowing the purpose of rooms. I almost want to recognize where I am, like I do in Thief or Unreal.
Jedi Knight 2 is Jedi Outcast. I assume you mean Dark Forces 2.
Surely there must be programs like DOSbox to let you play old games.
The biggest jib from that era is Shadows of the Empire that was designed to only work on a select few graphics cards from that time. I have not found anyway to make it work on my PC. It's a shame because although it's not perfect, it is still a great game.
Jedi Knight's engine is very cool as it allows from wide open spaces. In comparison Quake II didn't and compensated with skyboxes. There are a few parts of JK where you just think 'oh shit'.
Kyle and Jan appear a lot more in the cut scenes.
Very interested about only seeing the exterior of the cathedral. I was expecting to have to go in for that Torc thing. You can see Hammerites inside walking as you look through the gab behind the church. Is that floating thing not the Torc?
Could you give me an over view of the story so far (up to Dark Cathedral) and how the Hammerites and Keepers play into it?
EDIT: I have worked out the next bit. I thought the whispering scary voice was talking about a statue in/around the cathedral. Your clue made me think it's somewhere else in the level so I backtracked until I saw the first bridge and a statue with two unlit torches. We are good at these hint things :D
I tried some FMs for Dark Forces. Now I know why not to try FMs for old school games. Ugh, that was the definition of video game hell. A long corridor with respawning enemies and ledges that are difficult to jump to. After getting stuck I found out finishing the mission was impossible.
There are if you are crazy enough. Just set up a VM for Windows 98 and run whatever your heart desires!
I was facinated with Dark Forces' graphics. I know, pretty silly, but the last level honestly impressed me.
You will need to get into the cathedral to get the Eye. The floating thing is the Eye, which is the thing Constantine sent you after. You haven't found the Torc either yet then I am assuming?
You were very good at that hint system! That is what the eye was talking about.
Confused with the story? The beginning levels are quite disconnected besides Garrett making a name for himself (oftentimes people get upset at how long it takes for the main story to start, yet it does give you more of a look into the world) and eventually attracting the attention of Constantine and Viktoria. The latest, the Haunted Cathedral, makes you go after the Eye for Constantine.
As for the connections to the Haunted Cathedral, they are rather simple. The Hammerites built the Cathedral and worshipped there until a Zombie outbreak in that section of the City which forced the place to be barricaded. The Keepers also had a local grotto (where you are right now). Unlike everyone else, it seems they didn't immediately leave and instead sealed the Eye in the Cathedral.
If you still want a pretty detailed explaination of what you should know by this point, here it is....
DETAILED STORYLINE BY LEVEL
Garrett was a kid living on the streets until he was taken in by the Keepers. They housed him and trained him due to his natural talent of stealth, as he was even being able to sneak up on a Keeper. Still, his time on the street perhaps caused him to develop a craving for theft. Using his enhanced skills, he continued to steal and eventually left the Keepers due to differences (which left him in anger).
Some time later Garrett goes after Bafford's Scepter, only to find out his fence was discovered and sent to the Hammerite prison (Craigscleft). Though Cutty died (due to terrible living conditions rotting his lungs), he tried to repay Garrett by telling him about an assoicate named Felix who had notes detailing where the Horn of Quintus was located in the Bonehoard and proceeded to go after it with a team of thieves. Sadly, the Hammerites stole the notes and put it in their evidence box. Meanwhile, a prisoner named Nammon apparently escaped and managed to get to the evidence box, stealing some of the valuables (and the map on Expert) before eventually dying whilst hiding from the Hammers.
====Semi-Spoiler for something that happens at Craigscleft on Expert and might have some connection to Thief 2=== Expert difficulty has you go after Basso the Boxman in order to make his sister VERY appreciative. It gets more complicated as you are forced to carry his unconsious body out of the prison.
Garrett eventually escapes from Craigscleft with the map, going after the Bonehoard. Felix and his team died at various points in the expedition (one quit but got trapped in a room whilst hiding from Zombies, another whilst getting fire arrows for the Mystic's Soul, another whilst finding a room of statues which he assumed was the room of the Mystic's Heart (only needed on Expert), another falling to his death off a chasm, and Felix due to running out of holy water). Garrett acquired the Horn of Quintus, but not without having to deal with awakened burricks as they were entranced by the musical notes of the horn (which stopped upon theft).
Next, Garrett proceeds to buy some lockpicks (with the intent to use them on the local Hammerite temple) and other goods from Farkus, one of the rare people that wants to deal with him due to his refusal to join any of the gangs. Eventually, Ramirez (one of the City Wardens or heads of the gangs) gets tired of Garrett's refusals and decides to send some assassins to kill him. They mistake Farkus for him, a mistake that allows Garrett to rob Ramirez. Ramirez becomes embarassed by the loss in loot (especially when some of it was right under his nose) and sends his men to comb the streets, but Garrett makes it back to his house okay (only added if the alarms go off)
Garrett also takes on an entire club of Thieves (two different gangs led by Donald and Rubin) around this time, for a vase. Not really important, as it was just added to Thief Gold.
So, up to this point all that really matters in hindsight is that Garrett did a bunch of different impressive jobs. After all these jobs Garrett acquires the interest of an unnamed client (who turns out to later be Constantine) who is represented by a woman named Viktoria. She asks Garrett to steal a magical sword from a recent face in the city named Constantine. This turns out to be a challenging job due a large number of guards and a mazelike house (with insanely built upper floors).
Eventually, Garrett escapes from the madhouse with the Sword, returning to Viktoria. Garrett finally meets the client, who turns out to be Constantine. Viktoria and Constantine are old associates and Garrett was simply being tested on his abilities. Constantine is quite the collector, yet as he says there are certain things not avaliable for purchase which must by acquired through thievery. Constantine sends Garrett to the Old Section of The City to find the old Hammerite Cathedral, where the Eye should be found. In return of the Eye, Constantine will give Garrett a massive amount of gold (even better than anything he has acquired up to this point). Garrett was also given the Sword to keep due to his success with the test (plus it perhaps will be useful). Garrett tells Constantine that he is not friendly with the Hammerites as they are fanatics and therefore this job should be no problem. However, due to a Zombie outbreak this part of the city has been barricaded and no humans have been allowed entry in years. Garrett fights his way there, only to find out that his old friends the Keepers have sealed the doors and are therefore the only ones to know how to open them. The room you just found is the grotto of the Keepers (there is a key symbol on the map) where you will find the secret to entering the Cathedral.
No, all 4 aren't found in the level. Actually, the city they are showing is supposed to represent the entire city of Thief. They are quite a vast distance from each other (meaning each will be on a seperate level). Originally the game only had 2 levels for the talismans, each place had 2 of them. Because you got Gold all four are in seperate places.
So getting this Eye for Constintine and the Cathedral is going to be a major plot point that lasts quite a while through the game. (I've not ready your story overview just yet. I figure I'll complete Cathedral first.
I'm currently at 1hr 30 and a good part of that has been running around the map. I now know my way around it off-by-heart which is saying so damn much because it's the most complicated map in the universe!!!
Now that sounds like me when I was on Dark Forces! XD! I am so sorry to tell you this, but you have contracted TRBS.
Okay, if you can't figure it out with this, I guess I will have to post a screenshot.
<<<DETAILED SPOILER>>> On the side of the drawbridge with the buttons, you need to look up. There should be a doorway up there, you can climb the walls by the button to reach it.
In unrelated news, I have customized various FMs that were good to be less flawed (such as eliminating spelling mistakes, fixing alignments, ect). So I guess if you want a better and more seamless gameplay after being done with the Thief series I can upload the patched versions of these FMs instead of you having to play the vanilla versions.
Blood bitches fire nipples. How many times have I walked past this bridge, by that silly doorway in the sky. I was looking on the other side of the water >_<
Edit: Holy god, you know I was saying about intense gameplay being very difficult enemies. Well after entering that house/mansion after the sky door, I hit one of the aperations (at least I thought that was what it was) over the head from behind with my sword. I then turn around and go back into the same room to see this skull faced monster running at me. I jumped out of my skin slightly and ran like a little girl out of the house. I then tried to fight this thing and died in seconds.
Oh shit.. that evil laughing. This is 100x worse than Ke. You didn't warn me about the fucking evil skull bosses! YOU NEVER WANRED ME! ATLEAST I WANRED YOU ABOUT KE!!!!! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!
EDIT2: I managed to defeat the two skull bosses using stealth (I can't imagine defeating even one of them in face-to-face combat. Should be done with this level within minutes hopefully.
EDIT3: I have completed Haunted Cathedral. The misleading title and the hidden path to end of the level (and not mention the confusing layout) made that a very evil level. I must have passed that draw bridge 10 times and never though to look up.
Since it was the first monster level to make me like using combat and the inclusion of those skull monsters, I think haunted cathedral will be one of the levels of look forward to replaying next time I play Thief.
By the way, that thing is called a Hammer Haunt. That is the thing I dressed one year as Halloween. They are also good target practice for those who want a skilled fight (if you do it fairly). Might I warn you that they aren't bosses...
Face-to-face is fun, if you are a sadist. I loved to fight both at once, just for the extra challenge. You gotta be quick and smart when dealing with a large number (as a child I remember having to take on 10 or so in one FM). So you can see why guards pose no trouble nowadays?
Actually, you need to learn that lesson now then. When in doubt, look up. It will save you later (hint, hint).
You are going to replay Thief? Hopefully on expert by that time! The extra challenge and the limited life makes it more fun!
I am glad you love the Hammer Haunts. They definately are great monsters. From a distance they might even look like Hammerites, but they are a lot worse in death than they were in life.
So, welcome to the Mage Towers, the first of the four talisman levels and second of the three gold. This level is what defeated me as a child. This level is somewhat broken and can lead to frustration at a certain part. This level is massive and will require a lot of work. But it is human based! Have fun...
Also, 3 edits? You are getting more like me by the minute!
I would very much like to play some 'Death Varified' FMs after I finish the Thief games. That is if I'm not all stealthed out :D
Of course they are bosses, just like the two brothers of hell at the end of Doom episode 1 and the two Vore at the end of Quake episode 2.
Are there actually bosses/boss monsters in Thief?
I will try Mage Towers but will not likely get very far today. I'll see how far I can get before needing help. The weird thing is I'm going to miss the combat now. Of course don't get me wrong, I do also enjoy the stealth but it's good I like both sides of the game now.
Presumably you can use cheats to get to any level you desire. So maybe one day when I feel like it I will go back to that house with the Hammer Haunts and have a bit of a practise.
EDIT: I completed the Mage Towers. The very simple fact that the level's layout made sense (four distinct towers surrounding a central tower) made this much easier than Cathedral. This helped keep me playing almost solidly for the 1hr 50min it took me. Very fun level which I can't see why people dislike.
I'm interested to hear which part of it can break causing problems. I had no problem clearing out the central tower with my trusty blackjack and then going up and down each of the elemental towers one after the other. In fact that final puzzle was super easy. I was expecting having to use my sword due to that note you find but it was a simple fact of trying each of the talismans until you picked up the right one.
I will replay Thief of course but not for a very long time. I think by the time I complete Thief 3 my hunger for Stealth games will be clenched.
Thanks for the story summery. It helps bring it all together up to this point. So I assume the next 3 levels will be finding the other talismans before returning to the Cathedral for the Eye and then hey presto, Constintine pays for you enough money for you to retire from thieving and live the rest of your life in a small cottage in the middle of nowhere, in peace. ^_^
The fixes definately are minor, but they are things that a keen eye might be bugged by. I was planning on going a bit more extreme (such as adding briefings and rerecording audio to eliminate excessive breathing in the microphone) but then we are losing the spirit of the original (which is what I am trying to preserve). Mainly it has been spelling mistakes, alignments, and shop flaws (things that should be there not being there or the compass appearing when it should not appear).
I guess so. I guess it is all on the intent, and I don't know if the intent was to have Hammer Haunts as bosses.
There are bosses in Thief! You met Ramierez, did you not?
Well, since you already beat the Mage Towers, congrats! Now you are on the Lost City, where your thirst for combat might be satisfied once more! Also, it is probably the most changed map of Thief: Gold from the original. As you originally had to go after the Talisman of Water as well, apparently a lot of Craymen were supposed to attack. Sadly, none will now appear. But they also brought back some familiar enemies...
The very final Thief: The Dark Project patch added the cheats, so yes you can get to any level you desire. I have a level select set up, plus I could use the in-game cheat to get to the next level or edit the game files to start on whatever map I want.
Yes, the level makes a lot more sense than the previous. For some reason I always missed the fact that the water tower was unlocked as a child. Most people dislike the platforming of the towers, such as the fire tower's hot plates and such.
I lucked out on the talisman and got the right one on my first try. As for the part that breaks, it was the air tower. One of the floating platforms goes through the world at times, meaning it is impossible to get up and complete the level. Apparently it gets worse with length of gameplay.
Yeah, the length of the series will definately quench your thirst. Thief 2 is quite expansive in comparison to the first.
I don't remember Ramierez. Surely main characters who are as easy to take down as normal enemies don't count as boss fights.
It would be cool to make a Thief level. I would probably base it off of a Manhunt level, putting shadows and enemies in the same places. But I know I'd never really be bothered.
From what I can remember, there's no reason why you couldn't go straight for the towers in order to get the Fire key within 20 minutes. That'd reduce the risk of getting a game ending glitch.
Completing Mage Tower today when I expected to not do it until at least next weekend AND finally starting to enjoy the combat aspect of the game has got me on a new Thief buzz. So I am going to try to move my game over to my laptop as long as I can find a big enough USB stick. Then it should be a simple matter of moving my saves files from computer to laptop as I wish.
Ramierez was the guy who you had to steal the purse off of in Assassin. Thief does have a final boss that might fit those credentials.
It is addicting to work on levels once you get the hang of it. Thief 1 tutorials are few and far between though, it is best to learn by tearing things apart. I never really got a solid level done, but I do know my way around the editor and therefore can fix things up. Especially at this early stage where it is basic things.
That is exactly the way to do it. But the storyline is supposed to have you "learn" about it in the library before you go to the towers, so a first time player isn't going to know to rush through the first 3 towers.
Thief is getting addicting huh? Glad to hear! You don't have a USB that can fit 1 GB? My installation, with FMs included, only comes out to 844 MBs.
Enjoy the Lost City, it is a popular level among the monster lovers. People lovers hate it.
For sometime I have been struggling with a 100somthingMB USB not knowing that I have two 2GB sticks in my drawers. I found it with a little search and now I have Thief running on my Laptop.
Monsters lovers, people lovers... such a sad way to think. I am all equal opportunities guy myself. I don't care if you're a man, woman, child or a four legged goatcow, I will enjoy bashing you over the head all the same :D
I should now start to improve my rate of progress on Thief now that I don't need to wait until weekends to play it.
EDIT: Meh, generally the laptop is less comfortable to play on than my desktop but only with Thief do I take note of it. I will try to get around this.
Here's a deal for you. If you move my desktop to and from my weekend/week homes I will give you full access to my classic PC games. Then I can play Thief on desktop wherever and whenever.
I don't feel like I've been playing it very fast. Although you do like to look under every nut and cranny while I just do the objectives and complete the levels with the bare minimum.
I think the reason the uncomfortableness of the laptop has come up today is because I've never played the same game on my desktop and laptop within the space of a couple of hours. I'll get over it and will hopefully complete the Old City tomorrow.
In Gold's slightly altered story, did the Talismans live in the Mage Towers before the Keepers stole them to use them to lock the Haunted Cathedral? And are the Mages a big part of the plot? The two mages at the top of the central tower were talking about the destruction of the world to make way for a new one. And is the Eye the source of all the evil of the walled off part of the city? If not then what was the reason for the Keepers to lock down the Cathedral and then hide the 4 talismans across the city?
That summarizes my playstyle pretty well in any game actually. I look anywhere I can, every room I can, and get anything I can. I fail to find every secret, but I don't like to miss anything (especially in Thief). Expert might also be slower than Hard.
Complete the Lost City? So you already started it?
Almost in October of 1999! The funny thing is that the FM I am at is heavily connected with the Lost City.
A bunch of questions? Let me see what I can answer based on what you shoud know. If I didn't answer, understand I can't fully explain right now.
The Keepers had the Talismans for years before using them to seal the doors to the Haunted Cathedral. They don't believe in theft like Garrett, that is why they have a difference of opinion! In the distribution of the talismans, one was given to the Hand Brotherhood who treasured it.
The Eye is evil and was sealed in the Haunted Cathedral. A corruption existed, but was contained. The Keepers broke their usual action of not acting to do such. They also knew to be at the ready in case said corruption was to return. The Pagans or the Hammerites would cause the corruption to exist again as they broke the balance.
The Pagans worship a deity called the Trickster and speak in a broken dialect worshipping the rise of trees and the toppling of towers. The Hammerites worship a deity called the Builder (or Master Builder) and speak in a standard dialect about the forging of their life. Both are in a constant struggle against each other, a lack of technology versus working towards the future of mankind. Both are also religious fanatics and thus quite unreliable on what they might exactly do to achieve victory over the other (therefore neither could be trusted with the secret).
Not only were the Keepers concerned about keeping everyone out though. They also thought that it might one day be important to retrieve the Eye.
The Mages aren't really important to the story (Thief Gold only expanded and didn't change the story besides the location of the Talismans). They are secluded and talk among themselves and highly treasured the Talisman. They were perfect candidates for being a protector, especially since they are quite good at protecting themselves and can use magic to ward off intruders. Still, the Keepers were even nervous about trusting the Mages and kept them under close observation. The only other time you will meet mages is in the Lost City.
The dialogue you heard was indeed about that. Surprised that interested you unlike all other dialogue so far. Course, destruction of the City is quite a big statement. The Mages don't have much of a connection with the plot, but they do know of the Prophecy and therefore why they should strive to retrieve the talismans. They also combine it with all four elements, talking about a city on flames and how it would fall into the earth. Still, are you going to let superstition get in the way of your quest? Do you seriously believe that the Earth will be overrun with Zombies? How about an awesome boss fight with Hammer Haunts? Don't you remember how much money you are going to get for completing this quest?
I've played about 15 minutes of Old City, getting as far as the city entrance.
So Constantine says he wants the Eye to add to his collection but if it can destroy the city perhaps he has other ideas with what to do with it.
Garret is a bit of an idiot then. He's going to retrieve something that caused a whole section of the city to go shit-side and that was locked away with four 'keys' that were subsequently spread across the city in order to ensure the Eye never escapes. All for a guy he knows nothing about. Perhaps Garret's just doing this to get one over the Keepers for dispelling him.
I do like listening to dialogue. Just like Dishonoured it's one of the major ways to understand more of the back story. It's a nice touch since most games hand you major plot points in-between levels. But in Thief for example, you need to accomplish the mission objective with your skill and find out what's going on in the bigger picture by yourself.
One thing worth mentioning about Jedi Knight is that the cut scenes are full-motion with live actors. Although it is good it's easy to see why some people won't like. If it's not you're taste then you'll just have to get on with it.
Wait, when did I say the Eye can destroy the city? It is sealed in the cathedral and is considered evil, yet when did that involve destruction of the city? Is Constantine a Necromancer and going to raise the undead?
You don't understand, the answer for why he is still doing this is quite simple. He is not superstitious and does not listen to the ramblings of all these cults. Also, I never said the Eye is what caused the disaster in the city. The guy he knows nothing about is offering a large sum of money, should he quit just because some people feel that doing so could be dangerous to the city? But you could have another part of it, the Keepers are his old friends and he perhaps wanted to show them up. He slipped right under their own nose and stole the Eye, something they were supposedly guarding and thought heavily secured.
Garrett is quite greedy. Perhaps that also blinds him to the larger picture?
Dialogue is amazing and I wish it was done more like it is in Thief. Not forced, yet there for those who want to listen.
So Jedi Knight will look like Lord of the Rings (1978)? Okay, that is a bit scary. Then again, it could be like Thief (the colored cutscenes (such as you saw at the start of The Haunted Cathedral) are a mix between live actors and artwork). So that tells me little to nothing...
EDIT: November of 1999, another slow month. Getting closer to Thief 2. At this rate we might just be starting Thief 2 (February of 2000) around the same time!
My collection of FMs has gone up to 3 due to the last 2 months. All are still human based (as are pretty much all FMs up to this point, I wonder when some high quality monster missions will appear).
The goat/cows are my favourite enemy. I just rinsed like 5 of them in a single room. Although for the first time ever I decided to use a mine but mines don't activate for goat/cows. So then after killing the goat/cows I had to use a fire arrow to blow up the mine. Success ¬_¬
I like the Old City as it's a bit different to the others. A buried city locked away by the Keepers. Is there plenty of water arrows? I've met those fire ball firing fire balls. It came out of no where and killed a goat/cow while I ran away. I was cowering in the shadows as it went by (first time using stealth against monsters) and then suddenly thought the water arrow might work.
Burricks are your favorite enemies? They are quite fun at times, but I enjoy Hammer Haunts a lot more. Also, mines do activate. They take a second after they drop to work though (meaning it is possible to pick it up, after that kablooey!).
Ah, you have met the Fire Elementals! Water arrows are kinda minimal around here, so be careful with your aim.
The Lost City is a nice map, very ancient and arcane. Have you checked out your map yet? I thought that was a nice touch!
Interesting tidbit, but the Fire Shadow was basically a merge between a human and a Fire Elemental. They have the same sound effects!
I found a tonne of water arrows, should keep me going hopefully. I do like the map. I bet it makes more sense than some FM maps ;)
Currently at the tower where I assume the Fire Talisman is located although I had to quit before trying to get up. As long as everything is simple I should complete Old City tonight.
Is the Final Boss a good proper difficult fight? Or is it best I just wait and see?
EDIT: So I've fucked myself real good. I'm back tracking after getting the Talisman and it looks like I was meant to extend a bridge over a lava pool which I jumped over. But jumping back over is not possible. Oh well, Thief was good while it lasted.
Oh yeah, a lot of FM maps are quite a bit of trash. The bar of quality is increasing though.
Tower of the Talisman? Congrats on making it that far.
Ah, the final boss isn't really a fight. Just wait and see.
Hmm, have any health or speed potions? How did you jump over it to being with? Did you get injured by lava? Did you see mages? If you saw mages and did that jump... wow, so much for it being fixed in Thief Gold!
Funny how infamous that part actually is...
EDIT: Tried taking on a Hammer Haunt with Broadheads. As I am unable to fire in midair like in Thief 2, the challenge was extremely difficult as it meant evading attacks and quickly rushing to some area where I could hope to get in a shot or two. I did it, but the difficulty was definately there.
It's that bit with a lip and you can't jump the limp going back. It is the the lrrge building where you meet Mages. I guess I'll give up. Oh wait, but look here. I've played it smart and saved it every five or so minutes. So I have a save file right before I made that stupid broken jump. I've lost about 20 minutes of gameplay (nearer to 10 minutes when I replay that part). Still as annoying as hell though.
FMs sound difficult. Is that the sign of your first good map added to your list that is monster based?
Do you know when you will get Jedi Knight? If this gets you excited, I will let you know that the first levels take place on a planet that you've already visited in Dark Forces.
Hey Raadec, I am curious how you like the new look of the background. I just updated it to lynque's reccomendations to kill the tiles. I also am curious if we should change the background image to something a bit larger, so it isn't as blurry when blown up.
Wow, so you somehow jumped over the gorge that is supposed to be impossible to jump over? You did know the developers specifically targeted that bridge so it would be impossible for this to happen? Now I want to see for myself if the jump is possible in my copy!
Glad you are smart to save a lot, I learned that strategy years ago. Back then I had worse problems from FTMDIAELS (Falling to my death in an endless loop syndrome) where I would save right after I jumped off a cliff to my death instead of loading. I remember doing that in Tomb Raider 3, forget what other games though.
FMs are not complex. They are about the same difficulty as the original game. It just is that I like creating my own challenges.
Nope, still no monster based levels! I actually was replaying an OM. Lets see, the entire list of levels with Hammer Haunts so far... Oh, if you ever plan to sit down and do a bunch of terrible missions you might want to ignore these "spoilers". No good mission yet has had undead.
I counted 14, which may sound like a lot, until you notice that 7 don't really count. So 7 Haunts in four levels out of all 39 I have touched so far. Somehow I am scared how well I remember these statistics and can quickly run through a list of FMs to tell you which levels had what enemies.
Jedi Knight should be here by the end of the week! Hmm, Dark Forces revisited? My intution says to go with the sewers. They would hate me enough to start in the sewers!
Well, we had that Necromancer level (which wasn't that good but has had the most undead yet, there was a boss fight that spammed Hammer Haunt sounds until you couldn't hear anything else and made you look for a key in a mess of redness). Hammer Haunts in that level were considered to be higher than the Hammerite Priests in the heirarchy. I think there were 3 as they only existed in one small part of the map. All could be easily stealth killed though.
Remember I mentioned a floating enemy that was highly bugged and was supposed to come to life after you picked up a treasure in one of the levels I was originally debating? That was a Hammer Haunt.
There was a level that I talked about that was semi-monster like Craigscleft. Well, the boss of that level just happened to be a Hammer Haunt. Yeah, that was basically a key hunt with a Hammer Haunt at the end (actually, I think it might also be the only level with Apparitions). It might be possible to stealth, but I just fought it head-on.
Part 3 of a series of maps (the third being incomplete and never finished, highly bugged and impossible to finish) had a place that would lock you in with an army of undead after nabbing some treasure. Mostly zombies, but two were Hammer Haunts. Yeah, this was a face-to-face fight.
Near the end of a mission where you were escaping from prison you had to kill a Hammer Haunt guarding some buttons (a lot of shadows means it was easy to backstab). No idea what that had to do with anything (besides the fact that it was a place sealed for years).
Do you count levels where every enemy in the game was put behind bars or intended to be combatting other people besides yourself? That was done twice, one was an interesting pit level where you could flick switches and enemies would in-fight. It was pretty obvious what enemy would win, let me tell you that the Hammer Haunt went down rather fast.
The second maybe non-counting was one with "stuffed trophies" of Hammer Haunts. I think there were two. Two more were in an arena fighting guards. There was another imprisoned behind bars. So that is five that you didn't have to deal with, three still living when you found them.
EDIT: On to FM number 40. No idea what it is about besides that it is human based. It also has been getting hype on the forums for the past few days. By the way, drivers for the voodoo3 still aren't very good and so many people recommend sticking with the voodoo2 if you want to play Thief :p.
So, I thought this was a good time to finally start a fresh new message thread, especially since we're soon going to indulge in some, ummm, dark experiments. Besides, the old one was getting really long and messy already. Here we can start planning our activities for next week... as well as just talk about any random thing that may come up.
Those metal videos were really cool, but educational too - now I know for certain which sub-genres to avoid like the plague. Of course, there will always be people who'd think it's all "satanic", no matter the style. I've actually learned to see this as part of the music's fun factor.
Ugh, today the internet's transient nature caused me a lot of frsutration again - I was looking for certain patches and they proved surprisingly hard to find. Eventually I found some obscure forum thread from 2014 that had links to all of them. My sense of triumph didn't last long, as the site the links pointed too turned out to be dead and gone. I immediately went to the Wayback Machine, and came face to face with the thing I feared the most... the site used download queues that were generated for every user. That's impossible to archive by the WBM, so it's completely lost now. Oh well, at least now I know not to pursue this particular side project anymore.
Other than that it was just another hot and boring day...
Logical enough, I felt we needed a new thread for a bit, but never found a good point to just switch over.
Shrugs, I am not really one to care what other people think about my music. Plus people around me are more likely to like "normal" metal music like Slayer and Megadeth. But yeah, certain genres are rather unappealing, especially the sludge/grind based genres which rely entirely on pig vocals. Plus you got "core" genres which usually are complete garbage and nu metal which is just as bad. Note however that all of these aren't "real" metal genres anyway, but genres that tend to get lumped in.
It is rather depressing to think about. Perhaps even more depressing is the fact that as the years go on, more dead links will be created, resulting in a lot of potential treasures being lost forever.
As you know, we have endeavored not to make things too easy for our invisible friends, the future archeologists. That's right folks, you'll have to collect these weird message archives piece by piece. And your research paper on "Online weirdo subcultures and hangouts in the early XXI century" will take some effort to finish.
It's amazing that there are people who would enjoy stuff like pornogrind, but hey - people are weird. Look no further than this Wiki to see how crazy we can get. So, those are the "normals"... truth be told, I barely know any of their songs. One more proof that I'm not normal. Sad.
Good thing I keep an offline archive of many things - more than half useless, sure, but then there are occasional very cool things that can't be found anywhere else anymore. This archive habit comes from the early internet days, when connections were unreliable, so you'd always stash a copy of something you've downloaded, just in case. And today this habit is driven by website death paranoia... quite justified, as we've seen multiple times.
It's kind of sad that in most days I really need to lie down for a while when I come home after work, even if just for 10-20 minutes. That's how much the heat drains my energy (temperature regulation is a major body process). Or I'm just getting old :P
Hey, this is important to ensure they actually devote time to this as opposed to just playing the newest Call of Duty. Why people still play those I don't know.
Shrugs, I don't really like normal music, and I also don't like grind-based music as it is all about brutality instead of emotions. There is only one "porn" band I can support, Black Countess, and that is because they are actually quite talented regardless of the subject matter. At least until 2003, then they just started making things into porn stories with black metal riffs. It wasn't so blatant early on, was far more gothic, and quite good.
I can entirely understand that logic, it will be people like you that keep things alive when they totally are lost. I should archive things a lot more than I do actually. Hmm. I have the storage space, perhaps I should set up some simple folders for Quake stuff. While shovelware CDs means it isn't as lost as other things, those CDs might become very rare. Would be better than my confusing mess of installation copies.
Picture shows a much better sorted collection. That is my "official" folder, showing the various releases of Quake. Pre-installed each one so I didn't have to deal with the slow times for DOSBox's loading of PAK0. This is quite useful for testing out issues in stuff made up to September of 1996 (1.01 vs 1.06) or even the odd missions released during the Shareware era (have conversion software to make them work with the full game since apparently they otherwise are incompatible). I have a separate folder just for my personal Autoexec for quick and easy grabbing. Also have both versions of the source code with the various files needed to compile it without errors.
I also have a Levels folder being set up with a setup similar to Quakewikia's categories (no surprise, since I organized them here). Singleplayer with no exits in one, Multiplayer in another, Campaign in a third, test in a fourth. Also categorized by the pack I originally took them from, so all Q2 levels are put together (in that case, also fixed up the few issues such as Evil Palace not having a BSP extension). Since it is an unofficial categorization, I can do it better than some of the odd choices authors made when saying what their levels were. Basically, good for drag and drop, such as if we want a certain style on the server.
Aftershock stuff has been put under an "Expansions" category, since that stuff can crash if tried to mix with the main game due to the difference in texture sizes. All the missions were sorted in there, they just need to be taken out of the subfolders.
Plus then I will also have a Tools section for stuff like the WAD files needed to compile this stuff out and whatnot. I also got a collection of images for further digging into each thing (and storage of the Toolbox mods without needing them all out and about due to their messy nature). Also plan on storing my server files for better backing up here, a good thing about this week will be the whole "ensuring the server is at least stable" thing.
Oh, I am old as well. I tend to sleep early for no real known reason, which results in it being too late to record by the time I get up, since 3 AM is a bit hard to record to. Depressing.
Also, we have a bit of a new problem. Turns out Dailymotion is freaking out with my latest video as it is going past the maximum allotted size. As much as it might be a pain to do, we might need to finally get to switching over to Youtube videos.
Basically, the way it appears, Dailymotion is slightly better than Youtube if doing apples to apples. The problem is that Youtube can accept bigger apples while Dailymotion limits you to standardized apple sizes. As crazy as it sounds, I wonder if I should rerecord the various videos for a better quality on Youtube.
Believe it or not, Call of Duty seems to be on the decline. It is trying to survive by focusing on multiplayer, though, to the point that it could eventually abandon Single Player altogether. At any rate, for me the CoD series consists only of the first two games, they are the only ones I can tolerate.
Black Countess is a cool name. I'll have a look at them at some point. You don't like brutality? What kind of tyrant are you going to be then? :P
It's definitely a good idea to keep such archives. I started keeping one more than 10 years ago and it has grown quite a bit. Occasionally I upgrade some stuff for the sake of "keeping it genuine" - e.g. some zipped DOS games were replaced with actual floppy images, some preinstalled things were replaced with original installers + appropriate patches. There's also a bit of redundancy - sometimes I have more than one copy of something because it's in different formats or part of different collections (e.g. a Quake CD that only has the 1.06 version, but also a package that installs 1.06 + Winquake, as well as that newer CD that contains version 1.08, Winquake, VQuake and some older version of GLQuake).
Your collection looks good - and it's a reminder of how I was lucky enough to salvage that 0.8 Beta. Good to know one more person is keeping it safe.
My WADs collection is kind of messy. Didn't have the patience to make it more ordered, I'd just divide the stuff into Doom / Doom 2 and then just 7z them all together. But in more recent years I have set aside my favorites or some map packs with historical significance into separate packages.
I guess we're all getting old... I am not as nocturnal as I used to be. Though, of course, I can still be nocturnal during vacations when I don't have to get up early. But otherwise, it's pretty hard, in the morning I feel like an old dirty rag that has been stepped on by a burly farmer with extremely mud-covered boots. That wasn't the case back in 2009-2011... oh well, can't stop time, can we?
YouTube has the adventage of being more accessible, more popular and easier to use, I think... as for re-recording, that's up to you. It looks adequate the way it is now, though there is always room for improvement.
I guess people are bound to eventually see how generic it is. Call of Duty can only fool people for so long.
Black Countess is a porn band, so expect to see things like songs about lesbian vampires. That is pretty much their forte. But it felt like they had more variety early on, plus the music was actually good. Best black metal band out there. Of course, where they ended up... let's just say their final album was called "Feetish".
Check out Evenfall if you want brutality. It is literally just screaming over and over. Music sounds decent, but my god are those vocals hilarious.
Yeah, keeping it genuine is good, but I just keep those in a storage area just for genuine original stuff. It will be good to have Aftershock Toolbox levels without the server crashing because of incorrect names.
Yes indeed, I am glad to be maintaining this collection. Makes me feel better that I have these as opposed to possibly losing files that would need to be compiled out or converted again. Plus it is easier to drop in and test files for compatibility issues. Except that now I am realizing that shareware not only doesn't like custom mods, but doesn't like custom maps. Not sure how to get around this. Maps I had to convert to registered from shareware BSP don't seem to do anything in the shareware...
Another good idea might be to go the route of file hosting. Right now it is particularly hard to get Quake maps if you are European as a lot of the sites don't work under some new laws. Combined with the anomalous timestamps, it almost makes more sense to store things using a file hosting website, specifically one that doesn't delete links after so many days of not being downloaded. Commercial-only stuff of course could not be included, but nothing would prevent us from storing some shovelware files that would have been found on the internet long ago. Check out Crypt'o'Death and see how it works.
I guess that is the convenience of starting it early, I am making sure it isn't too much of a mess. It also helps that I document everything on a Wikia, trying to do this for Doom would be a mess at best. No real reason to do Doom for me anyway, we could never play the stuff in coop and I don't get much enjoyment from playing them by myself.
Based on my experience with Doom, it can still be quite a bit of fun as shovelware levels may have slightly different timestamps from the same levels on the internet. For Doom I didn't really investigate differences like that too far, but for Quake those timestamps shall be important for determining level versions and changelogs. This will be more of an issue as we move along, not really something that has hit so far. This is also why I don't just grab links from the internet for the shovelware levels, until I have confirmed they are identical (or have documented the changes) they cannot be validated.
I am nocturnal on weekends, but the week forces me to be up. A shame, since that usually makes me feel more worn out. I get disconnections from reality a lot.
Youtube definitely has all of those things. It has the advantage of handling larger files, allowing for greater resolutions, and actually allowing control over playlists.
I think you are right, for now it looks adequate (unless you are looking for differences, you can't really tell Youtube is slightly less detailed, perhaps this is because... as I just noticed... it seems to be using an older format that hates anything but 720p) and I can just convert things over. Re-recording would be nice, but I don't want to do it at the moment, since I plan on jumping up to 4k soon (say early 2019). Would be better for consistency if I do it at that point.
Of course, that begs the question if I should convert it, especially since it would be lower quality. Plus converting seems like it would be just as lengthy of a project. In the time it takes me to download a video from Dailymotion, I could have recorded and uploaded a new one to Youtube. Taking into account the fact that these videos are a less than ideal format when finally downloaded means I probably need to convert them... to something. Of course, converting videos can be a slow process as well and will probably slow down the uploading process as well. At this rate, I might as well just redo them.
Hmm, this might be one case where I host the video on Youtube. A bit inconsistent sadly (of course, we are talking about a Wikia where normally other people would be doing overlapping stuff, so maybe that is a foolish thought), but a placeholder until I can made a complete re-recording session. I am crazy enough to jump to 4k 60fps, which seems to be the end game these days (note most are still in 1080p, 1440 30fps is uncommon, so I am still ahead on the bell-curve).
I also fixed up some things lately, including the main page. Fixed up the text buttons so they didn't have black backgrounds. I also tried to add a Quake Champions logo, but the horizontal nature means it just doesn't fit with everything else, so I am not sure how to make it more presentable. Changed around the layout to better fit without needing to scroll. Tried making things more presentable and visible on the initial view that should be more noticeable. Fixed up the Recent Activity box as the bullets tended to leak over. The spirit is the same, just made a lot cleaner for easier readability.
Also check out the Quake Soundtrack, I fixed the look of audio buttons so that the appearance doesn't get totally butchered when you click one of them.