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  • You wrote:

    tried in DOS 10 times,

    and

    noclipped right to Rotfish if helps

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    I play Quake via QuakeSpasm (version 0.93.1 to be precise) without any extra modifications. Vanilla glitches apply, e.g. each killed rotfish counts as 2 enemies and so on. I can't be too sure, but I think this glitch should be reproducible under DOS as well.

    Noclipping straight to the Water room in E4M4 like you did is the way to circumvent this glitch, not reproduce it. It appears to manifest only after a period of prolonged play, possibly after saving & loading a game, and possibly under some other condition. As I stated, I ran into it at least twice.

    In my case (Nightmare difficulty), when I finally reached the Water room there were only 7 live rotfish in the water instead of 9. The 8th was lying dead on the floor (I doubt me or any other monster could have possibly gotten her somehow) and the 9th was nowhere to be seen. I noclipped & made several tours around the level and couldn't find its dead body. It simply vanished and I was not credited a kill.

    This was how it happened the 2nd time, after I restarted E4M4 with the 'kill' cheat. (The 1st time this glitch happened, I cleared the whole level before noticing that I missed an enemy.)

    Afterwards, I entered 'kill' again and raced to the Water room where 9 live fish greeted me with their happy chatter.

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    Istfemer

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    • DOS Quake has issues with saving, so I am doing this test in GLQuake. That should be fine as QuakeSpasm was based on it. I also play in Nightmare.

      I launched the game and saved immediately. I then exited and reloaded. I then reloaded once more. I killed the Fiend and reloaded. I died to the Fiend and reloaded.

      Do you use Quicksaves and Quickloads? That might be a variable worth knowing. I am loading through the menus.

      I wandered around every area besides the Water that I could and took about 15 minutes to do such. This should provide a reasonable amount of time for something to occur.

      All nine were still there, no issues whatsoever. Did you go to the Water earlier and leave the Rotfish alive? Were they alerted in any way? My test left them alone for those minutes so that if something happened while they were idle, it would occur.

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    • My version of Quake is 1.09 and I'm running QuakeSpasm 0.93.1 on Windows.

      My refutation is that it is likely something exclusive to QuakeSpasm

      Maybe, but it may well be not.

      It might have also been a case of the levels falling apart with stability, which tends to happen after long sessions and isn't really exclusive to this level.

      Hmm, this point merits some consideration. I do play long(ish) sessions, but I tend to exit the game fairly regularly too. The glitch did happen to me twice though and the 2nd time it happened it was one of the shorter sessions. How long is Quake-long anyway? What's the average session time till the stability issues begin popping up?

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      I launched the game and saved immediately. I then exited and reloaded. I then reloaded once more. I killed the Fiend and reloaded. I died to the Fiend and reloaded.

      You *are* thorough in your approach, just like me when I'm hunting for bugs.

      Do you use Quicksaves and Quickloads?

      No quicksaves or quickloads. I don't use them.

      Did you go to the Water earlier and leave the Rotfish alive? Were they alerted in any way?

      Yep, I did go there. They might have been alerted.

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      Istfemer

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    • What do you know? I've ran into this glitch once again. 8 Rotfish instead of 9 in the Water room. Bonus: local scrags flying through the underwater walls near the entrance to that room.

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      • run

      Could it be that one of the rotfish noclips through that particular wall and dies a strange glitchy death? Can the Rotfish even survive out of water?

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    • Maybe, but it may well be not. That is the main reason we are discussing this.

      Hmm, this point merits some consideration. I do play long(ish) sessions, but I tend to exit the game fairly regularly too. The glitch did happen to me twice though and the 2nd time it happened it was one of the shorter sessions. How long is Quake-long anyway? What's the average session time till the stability issues begin popping up? That I don't really have much of an answer for. Usually I start experiencing them when you start doing multiple Episodes in a single play session. If it is one Episode, it usually isn't a problem, but once you get to Episode 4 you are bound to get some spawning issue in E4M3 or E4M5 or wherever else it may decide to occur. Usually these showed up in Cooperative sessions which took several hours and a simple replay was all it took for said issue to be fixed, so it wouldn't have held such consistency.

      You *are* thorough in your approach, just like me when I'm hunting for bugs. I appreciate that. I have been in your shoes before, trying to bring something up and having it disputed, with the main difference being that said individual hadn't played the game for three years and was entirely relying on hearsay. I believe entirely in giving everything the benefit of the doubt, a known glitch like this would be quite intriguing, and it wouldn't be the first time an odd thing happened in Quake that the rest of the internet seemed to have glanced over.

      No quicksaves or quickloads. I don't use them. Good to know. I know they are issues in certain games, not sure if there are any issues that come about from using them in Quake. I generally play without saving, in DOS Quake there are a lot of anomalies that appear when you load saves. GLQuake fixed all of them from what I know, I killed myself in that particular run after counting the fish and reloaded to see what would happen in the middle of a level. Still had nine fish, plus can confirm I hit 78 Enemies.

      Yep, I did go there. They might have been alerted. Good to know, time to test with that difference.

      So I have redone the level in GLQuake 0.98 (1.09) on Windows 8.1. Recreated my earlier starting test procedure, with the variance of adding a right click restart on death and a kill command on success.

      I proceeded to quickly make my way over to the Rotfish to alert them as soon as I could. I alerted all the Rotfish around the 4th minute, then went back to doing the rest of the level. Do note this is a level where enemies tend to wander if alerted.

      I can tell you that the Moving Platforms around the Water can injure the Rotfish. In fact, I managed to experience one getting stuck inside of one and dying. That explains your dead Rotfish.

      I can also mention that, by alerting the enemy they also have a tendency to have more issues. It is best to kill what you alert. I think I have managed to recreate your situation. I have a save with eight Rotfish (and can confirm that is where the issue is coming from), one of which might get stuck and killed, thereby giving you your seven. Funnily enough I have noticed that somewhat in the past and had forgotten about it until now, there have been a few cooperative games where E4M4 tends to be the level where things just disappear.

      So, through testing, I can confirm that you indeed have found a recreatable bug and I will restore the edit to the page, albeit edited now that we understand somewhat the factors that cause this issue. As said, I have seen issues involving 77 Enemies in the past myself, which suggests this is not related to saving.

      I also can say that I have noticed one particular Rotfish in a tight corner that seems momentarily stuck until it can escape. That might be your culprit, though it is hard to tell because sticking around causes them to work properly.

      Congrats, you were quite right, there is a bug involving the Rotfish. Your edit will be restored, thank you for this conversation and for being willing to discuss things.

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    • Rotfish can survive out of Water by the way, they just get really glitchy. They tend to get stuck in one location, sometimes even teleporting around the level (could be that corner is too far in to be seen as "water"). Had quite a number of custom levels do that nonsense to me. Rotfish are almost always bad news.

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    • Very good! Thank you.

      I'll add that it usually does not take long for the 9th fish to start glitching & disappear.

      What I did to reproduce this glitch:

      I cleared the big room at the very beginning of E4M4 and the passage to the Water room (ignoring the Elevator and the Knight under the stairs), alerted the fish and turned back. Found the 2 secrets (fiend in the alcove with an Invulnerability powerup, which I also grabbed & the Healing Pool) and cleared the winding corridor to the point where it begins to split (into the upstairs & the corridor leading to the Silver Door). At that point I returned to thh Water room and found the 9th Rotfish to be missing. I did save & reload a couple of times.

      I have to say, this has been a thoroughly pleasant conversation.

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      Istfemer

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    • GlitchyFish
      Any time, I thank you as well for this contribution and am glad you were willing to converse after my earlier refutations.

      I tried to recreate your situation exactly to see what would happen. I didn't save and reload however, I just did it in one take. Once I made it down to the splitting area, I suddenly started hearing Rotfish sounds. Looking around, I found this. There is definitely something odd going on there. I managed to get this Fish to follow me around inside those walls, quite curious.

      It has been, I am glad to have talked to you. Definitely could do some more experimentation with this. Feel free to bring up anything else you happen to find, I always like finding oddities like this.\

      EDIT: The fish changes where he appears, but I can get him to pretty consistently teleport somewhere else. All I can say is look around, there might be a fish in the walls!

      Three times out of three. Third time was on Normal difficulty, so it isn't confined to Hard/Nightmare.

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    • Wow. That's some truly weird stuff going on there!

      Whenever I encountered this glitch (3 separate playthroughs by now), I couldn't find the escaped Rotfish anywhere on the level. It never made any 'alerted' sound either, else I would have located it rather quicky.

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      Istfemer

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    • Nods, it is quite likely that it may teleport somewhere outside the level, perhaps even falling into the void (since Quake is respondent to gravity). While I got lucky by seeing the Rotfish, it is quite likely that there would be circumstances whereby it wouldn't appear.

      This isn't the first time this sort of situation has occurred for me sadly. One of the commercial add-ons, Aftershock for Quake, had a level with Rotfish doing exactly this (probably for similar reasons, they teleported after being alert and not killed). The lesson really is that when Rotfish are involved, kill quick to ensure they don't stay alert, because they might not be there when you return.

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    • A FANDOM user
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